Homosexual Transsexual vs Autogynephilic males

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Originally posted 2017-08-29 18:01:06.

By Guest author

Much has made about the differences between autogynephilic transvestites (AGP) and homosexual transsexuals (HSTS). However, most of this work remains largely clinical and as such, it fails to connect to the sympathies of the public. An exception to this of course being J. Michael Bailey’s The Man who would be Queen, an almost pop-science interpretation of the data on transsexualism. Even this, despite being a nice read, is written from the perspective of a researcher. What I am getting at, if not already obvious, is that not much is written from the perspective of Homosexual Transsexual women.

I am a Homosexual Transsexual woman, and was invited by Rod to write a piece or two based on my experiences. I don’t usually get to share these with other people, and I thought this a good opportunity. I won’t get into much about my childhood — after you’ve heard a couple of Homosexual Transsexual’s childhood remembrances, you’ve pretty much heard them all — but I will give some basics.


I am a Cuban-American transsexual living in South Florida. I came out at fourteen, started hormones about a year and a half later and have been living full-time as a woman since then. I am currently twenty and in the six or so years since coming out, I’ve learned quite a bit about the different ways transsexualism manifests itself in South Florida.

In particular, I’ve come to notice how body type and behaviour tend to cluster for both Autogynephilic males and Homosexual Transsexuals based on ethnicity. South Florida is fairly ethnically diverse for the United States and so it is easier here than in most places to see the differences between groups. (I should note, what I am recounting here is based off of my own experiences and should — of course — be taken with a grain of salt.)


Ethnic Clustering of Body Types and Behaviour

A downside to being a Homosexual Transsexual is that quite often, the only frame of reference you have for what to means to be one is yourself. We don’t often get the chance to interact with people like us and so there is the tendency to assume that we are the gold standards of being transsexual; this is obviously untrue. Despite the fact that we often share similar histories, we are far from clones of each other. This is why it perturbs me when I see Transwomen chatting online about how so-and-so is really an Autogynephilic male because she doesn’t look and behave exactly as they do.

Laverne Cox

A woman to whom this happens quite frequently is Laverne Cox; she is quite frequently — I assume because of her height and build or because she plays an Autogynephilic male on TV — assumed to be autogynephilic. Whenever I see this, I become quite confused; in my experience, Laverne Cox is very typical of what you see of many African American transsexuals — that is, a woman who is tall and shapely. No transsexual is free from this; If you can believe it, I’ve even seen some Homosexual Transsexual women saying Blaire White is an Autogynephilic male. Of course — as I stated earlier — many transsexuals don’t have much frame of reference, so you can’t really blame them.

Being from South Florida has granted me some knowledge that most transsexuals don’t have; in this sense I am fortunate. Because of the ethnic make-up of South Florida, I have been able to observe facets of transsexualism that may have otherwise remained foreign to me. Miami — and the county in which it resides — differ wildly in ethnic make-up than the rest of the United States. White people are actually a minority in Miami at just over eleven percent of the population. Due to this, trends among homosexual transsexuals that may be apparent elsewhere in the U.S. are actually quite difficult to ascertain. Likewise, trends that exist in white transsexuals don’t always apply universally.


In particular, I’ve noticed that body type can differ dramatically for Homosexual Transsexuals of differing ethnicities. I have noticed that the stereotype of a Homosexual Transsexual woman — dainty and petite — isn’t accurate in regards to Cuban and black transsexuals, but that trends do exist within ethnic groups pertaining to height and build. Invariably, these trends make a Homosexual Transsexual look significantly less masculine than men in her ethnic group. Moreover, there are also similarities in the body types in Autogynephilic males of different ethnic backgrounds that often make them unsuitable for transition.


African American Homosexual Transsexuals, as I mentioned with Laverne Cox, don’t fit the mould when it comes to the stereotype of small and petite transsexuals. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Of course, that isn’t to say that they look particularly masculine, just that they aren’t exactly dainty. When I’ve encountered black Homosexual Transsexual women, they tend to be quite tall, usually hovering between 5’10” and 6’2″, despite this, they don’t have the hyper masculine build you would expect to accompany their height. They can actually be quite shapely and curvaceous, assuming genetics are in their favour. They are also some of the sweetest people you will ever have the pleasure of meeting.

Cherno Biko Black Autogynephilic male

An African American AGP, could not be more different. I should say, however, there aren’t actually that many black AGPs — but they do exist. I won’t sugarcoat it, they are built like football players. They may claim to be curvy, don’t buy it, they are simply overweight; they often dress in loose clothing so you can never quite tell the difference.

Carmen Carrera Puerto Rican Homosexual transsexual

As for Cuban/Puerto Rican Homosexual Transsexaul I — obviously — have more first-hand experience. We tend to be quite tall as well but we vary quite a bit more in this regard, anywhere from 5’7″ and 6’1″ is common — I am 6′ myself. We also tend to be very lean with thin waists and slender faces. As boys — before transitioning we were always noted for being exceptionally thin and light. People, thinking that there was no way a boy my height could be as thin as I was, assumed I was either sick or starving myself. We also have very wide hips relative to our height; personally, I am still surprised at how wide my hips have gotten on hormones — no complaints of course.


homosexual transsexaul-autogynephilic
A Couple of Cuban AGP

The difference between a Cuban/Puerto Rican Homosexual Transsexual and Autogynephilic male is truly night and day. You will never see a Cuban/Puerto Rican Autogynephilic male who fits the profile I have just described. They are actually — physically and emotionally — quite unattractive people, even for men. They are tall, but never thin; rather they have deep, heavily built torsos. To complement this, their faces are robust who fits the profile I have just described. They are actually — physically and emotionally — quite unattractive people, even for men. They are tall, but never thin; rather they have deep, heavily built torsos. To complement this, their faces are robust and heavy. Instead of the thin waists and wide hips you often see on Cuban Homosexual Transsexuals, you see that they have no waistline to speak of and their hips are thinner than their rib-cages. Cuban/Puerto Rican Autogynephilic males can also pass for white, they have light skin and brown or blonde hair; Homosexual transsexuals are more likely to have tan skin and thick dark hair.


White Homosexual Transsexual women follow the stereotypical pattern, that is they differ considerably from both black and Cuban transsexuals. White Homosexual Transexuals are much shorter than the aforementioned groups, usually between 5’3″ and 5’9″; as you would expect, they are usually slight and petite. Because of that, however, they don’t really develop hips like black and Cuban transsexuals often do.


White Autogynephilic males, as with the other groups, are a far cry from Homosexual Transsexuals. They aren’t as unappealing as the Cuban/Puerto Rican Autogynephilic males — or as cantankerous — but beyond that they share similar traits. They too have deep chests and robust arms and legs ill-suited for the female clothing they so desire to wear. The most significant difference between white Autogynephilic males and other Autogynephilic  groups is that they are less unpleasant to be around. I suppose this has more to do with how these groups were raised than anything, but I believe it is intriguing enough to warrant inclusion. Cuban/Puerto Rican Autogynephilic males are genuinely nasty people, willing to start drama at the tip of a hat with no care for who is harmed- emotionally or physically — in the process. White AGPs aren’t as belligerent and are content to live out their fantasies peacefully as long as you don’t confront them with the truth of their situations.

The Difference between Homosexual Transsexual and Autogynephilic males

Quite a lot can be said about the contrasting nature of autogynephilia and homosexual transsexualism. However, the intricacies surrounding transsexualism and autogynephilia can sometimes confound even those with a wealth of knowledge and experience. I myself am frequently identifying ways — both subtle and extreme — in which Autogynephilic males can be differentiated from homosexual transsexuals. There are so many variables, it can be hard to keep track of what applies to who and why. This complexity — unfortunately — can make it quite difficult for people to understand what the differences mean.


I believe for simplicity’s sake, it can be simplified as such: Homosexual Transsexuals have nothing to lose by transitioning and Autogynephilic males have nothing to gain.

Homosexual Transsexuals are miserable as youths. We know we are different, and the lack of any way to correct the incongruity is maddening. When we transition, it is not out of desire but out of desperation and necessity.

Autogynephilic males feel no such thing. I can’t imagine they are feeling too much discomfort if they can manage to live decades without having taken action. Autogynephilic males are living normal lives, they have prospects, careers, maybe even families. An Autogynephilic male’s transition is birthed, not from dejection, but from appetite. They long to embody their fantasy girl and in attempting to do so, they are more than willing to cast aside their families and their careers.

In other words, autogynephilic transvestites want to be women; homosexual transsexuals want to be happy.


I think the clustering that you describe is really the clincher that proves Blanchard’s Typology is essentially correct. How else could we explain the clear separation we actually can see? This is observable in any population of transwomen, anywhere in the world. It is not a scale of variation, it is two totally different types. –Rod Fleming




7 Replies to “Homosexual Transsexual vs Autogynephilic males”

  1. I see a lot of the authors claimed observations to be a bit off. Many of the taller trans that the author describes as HSTS are indeed more AGP.

    Just look at the Black and Latin transsexuals who get their ass, boobs and cheeks pumped with silicone and are obsessed with staring in the mirror trying to visualize their ideal female body.
    When interacting with these you can see that they are a bit self absorbed in themselves and their interactions with men. They just transitioned younger than other AGPs.

    1. in my opinion, this phenomenon has three explanations

      – these persons are HSTS who have a small part of AGP in them or then a narcissism separate from that of AGP. But they are HSTS

      – A lot of females have this behaviour. I think it’s feminine behavior

      – they are HSTS which have generally grown up in a western country or come from a western culture where femininity is suppressed in males (or they are slighly more masculine HSTS ). And they decompensate this cultural frustration in a pseudo narcissism

      (or an oscillation between HSTS and AGP)

  2. Your characterization of “HSTS” vs “AGP” trans women has no basis in reality. I would be an “AGP” according to you since I am exclusively attracted to women, and although I am somewhat tall for a woman (5’10”), I have narrow shoulders and a small rib cage, and I fit into women’s clothing quite easily. Perhaps trans women with childhood dysphoria tend to pass better since they tend to start HRT earlier, but they don’t have more “naturally feminine” bodies.

    1. I will take the liberty of interjecting for Noomi. Her characterisation is fully based in reality, you just deny reality.

      I personally have never said that ALL HSTS were short in stature, I said they ‘tended to be’. It’s different. Put simply, HSTS in any given ethnic group, all tend to look remarkably similar and tend to be at the extreme end of the scale, amongst males, on traits like shortness, lightness of build, neoteny, fineness of bones, etc etc. Non-homosexual MtF are simply no different on any of these from the average of other males in their ethnic group. It is glaringly obvious, to anyone familiar with the subject, when looking at a mixed group of transwomen, which are HSTS and which are AGP. There is NEVER any doubt.

      The only explanation for non-homosexual transgender and transsexualism (heretofore ‘MtF’) is Blanchard’s concept of autogynephilia, a man’s propensity to be sexually aroused by the through or image of himself as a woman. Put that another way, a male’s overwhelming, compulsive attraction to the idea of being a woman. It is a paraphilia, a misdirection of normal male heterosexual sex drive. You are AGP, since you are non-homosexual by your own words. Your body type is in conformity with the range for males in your ethnicity — you are a skinny guy who wants to be a woman. Since I doubt very much if you even know any HSTS (they avoid AGPs in the West, for obvious reasons) how would you know whether their bodies are feminine or not? I know plenty and I can assure you they are, and not because of silicone injections or implants either. It is indeed natural. It is one of the cluster of traits that define HSTS.

      This has NOTHING to do with age, although HSTS do tend to have earlier onset. Irrespective of age of onset, HSTS and AGP are always easily and clearly distinguishable. It is true that in a few cases (much more so in Asia) AGPs who transition early can be remarkably beautiful; but put one beside an HSTS and the difference is instantly obvious. There is NO SUCH THING as ‘childhood gender dysphoria’ this is a vicious trope invented by Western AGP activists who do not care how many children they damage in their own narrow political interests. Yes some children do exhibit Gender Non-Conforming (GNC) behaviours and a few do go on to become TS but GNC IS NOT gender dysphoria and GNC boys who persist will ALL become either HSTS or fem gay men (most would be better being HSTS.) But they are never AGP because they are always exclusively attracted to men. QED.

      Nobody has ever satisfactorily explained why it is that Western AGPs are as obnoxious as they are. Is it some sort of pseudo-feminism? AGPs elsewhere can be difficult but rarely as relentlessly objectionable. IDGAF what they think of me, but the constant attempt to totally erase HSTS and to pretend that AGPs are ‘just the same’ is appalling. There is no similarity between you and an HSTS; you just attempt to deny their existence in order to promote yourselves.

  3. Hi Shauna, well ‘people who “identify” as something but maintain that passing is problematic and self-identifying is all that matters’ are most likely transtrenders. This is an Identity Politics inspired fashion statement. It is similar to Emo or Punk, in that it involves rejection of conventional gender stereotypes but takes this much further. Because they reject gender, which has been the target of Post-modernist Feminist attack for decades, they also reject the idea of ‘passing’ in gender. They attack real transpeople as ‘truscum’ and insist that Gender Dysphoria is not a requirement to be ‘transgender’. If this were true, of course, then the word ‘transgender’ would lose all meaning other than as a fashionable Identity Politics group label. That is why I no longer use it in a general sense and only as a part of ‘transgender homosexual’ ie, feminine male and masculine female homosexuality.

    The transtrenders themselves are about as meaningful as Punk or Emo, but while the focus of the earlier movements was very much on music and associated youth culture, with gender-bending being an adjunct, the focus of transtrender is on the denial of gender itself. It is a symptom of radfem attack on gender itself, which is not only innate, but the interface through which we function in society. The aim of Postmodernism and particularly Postmodernist feminism, is the utter destruction of Western culture and, in the latter case, its replacement with a collectivist gynocracy, aka Communism by any other name. As we see from Venezuela right now, and saw many times in the 20th century, collectivism is a recipe for disaster that always, always, leads to starvation, misery and, of course, violence, since no opposing ideas can ever be tolerated. We see this already in the transtrender cult, which uses mob tactics to silence any opposition.

    As to your school friend, while HSTS are always concerned with passing, AGPs often are not. They try instead to bully those around them into accepting them as ‘women’ just by saying so. As the late Kiira Triea (HSTS) said, ‘If you have to bully someone into saying how feminine you are, you probably are not very’. He might, therefore, be AGP rather than transtrender; the latter usually eschew hormones because it is an implicit acceptance of the ‘gender stereotypes’ that they reject.

    Some transtrenders are actually gay males who are unwilling to embrace their innate femininity, because of internalised homophobia. However, they are unable to express themselves as masculine, because they have no idea how to, so they adopt a ‘non-binary’ self ID or call themselves ‘transgender’. They are in De Nial and there are many crocodiles there!

    I used to think HSTS tended always to be short and petite but I was re-educated by an HSTS friend. This seems to vary by ethnicity and, in any case, was never a rule, just a numerical propensity. So, we cannot use tallness as an indicator of type except in specific populations eg the Phlippines, where HSTS do tend to be shorter and more like the average for women than men. I was wrong to invest more certainty than I should have in that rule.

    Where is the population you’re observing and what is its ethnicity?

    Regards R

  4. This was a fascinating article and explained something I have pondered for a long time.

    I went to Canada in 1995 for SRS and part of the package was a room for two weeks in a large house with a group of others that were there for the same reason. There were common areas so people could share meals and socialize. The group size was around eight to ten people in total.

    A somewhat masculine female friend went with me for support and we were to be picked up at the airport by one of the staff – a trans women associated with the house. She had a sign with my name on it and when I approached and said I was the person she was to pick up, she acted like I had the wrong person and did not want to believe me. I later found out from my friend that they though she was the one there for surgery (they performed surgery for both MFT and FTM).

    I had not met any trans people before this trip and I felt very out of place. I was definitely different from the others. They were all much older and larger with one exception that was in between. I stayed near her and my friend and away from the others. One of them tried to hit on me while we were there and it was disturbing. I have avoided the trans community ever since.

    I am on the taller side, but am in the bottom 1% of body mass for males of my height and around 90% of my anthropometric measurements I checked fall into the normal female range for my height.

    Anthropometric Measurements — an Intuitive Visualization

    There are definitely two types in my experience.

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