Originally posted 2017-08-05 13:45:43.
In the West, both ‘gay’ and ‘transgender’ activists have spent fifty years trying to persuade us all that sexuality and so-called ‘gender identity’ are two totally separate things, but this is a lie. The truth is that homosexual boys become girly to attract men and butch lesbian girls become manly to attract women. That’s all there is to it.
Ah, you say, what about those ‘transgender’ women who are attracted to women? What about that then? How does that affect ‘gender identity’?
These are just as much informed by their sexuality, but in this case, their attraction is to themselves, as women, This is called autogynephilia. It is defined as ‘a man’s propensity to become sexually aroused at the thought or image of himself as a woman.’
They appear to be women because they are the women of their own dreams — well, erotic fantasies, anyway. Unsurprisingly, they retain a heteronormative male attraction to women. (You can’t be autogynephilic without being gynephilic first.)
This is where the ‘gender identity’ trope comes from. In fact, transvestites should have a normal masculine sexuality, because they are heterosexual males, but they develop a secondary personality, which believes itself to be a woman, as a result of their mental paraphilia. This secondary personality, which I call the artefact, may completely overwhelm the host, though not without conflict. Since it thinks it is a woman — it was invented to play the role of one by an auto-erotic man — it assumes a ‘gender identity’ that is pseudo-feminine.
Perhaps you scream in desperation, ‘What about masculine gay men? I’m sure I met one once!’ This is a function of social intolerance. Many homosexual men in the West pretend to be masculine and spend a lot of effort trying to appear as butch and buff as they can. This is partly in order to fit in to an intolerant society. But the fact is, if you’re seeking to be plunged by a thick hard length, you’re not masculine; and if you only do the plunging, you’re not really homosexual.
The other reason, as I explained here, is that in the West today, homosexual males are expected to have sex with each other. Since they are themselves only attracted to masculinity, this social expectation leads them to become masculine-appearing, in order to attract other homosexuals doing the same thing. As one transsexual friend said to me ‘Gays are women pretending to be men in order to have sex with other women pretending to be men.’
As this excellent piece by formerly gay, now transitioned author Juno Dawson — who is autogynephilic — confirms, most ‘gay men’ are actually transwomen manqué. Their masculinity is just a facade. She said
‘I think there are a lot of gay men out there who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn’t be women. That was certainly true of me. I think that there are a lot of gay men in the world who had the same personal misdiagnosis (as I did), because we didn’t have the information that we have now.’
Exactly: young homosexual males are conditioned to think they must be ‘gay men’ by a viciously transphobic surrounding culture. This propels them into a life of emotional and substance abuse and ultimately, misery. That this is actively supported by many professionals in the field, for example Oren Amitay, is nothing short of shocking. The only escape from this corrosive lifestyle is to stop pretending to be a man and be the woman the individual’s sexuality demands.
In Southeast Asia, in countries like Thailand, the Philippines and elsewhere, feminine boys are given both a developmental pathway (by completing) and a social role. But to do this they need to conform to the local cultural expectations. These reinforce the link between gender and sexual role.
Asian cultures are partially matriarchal, so this tends not to be applied in a harsh or judgemental way. Instead, feminine boys are understood to be both homosexual and girly; their behaviour is a function of their innate homosexuality.
Feminised males who fit into the autogynephilic profile are also subject to cultural expectations. These are that they will, as young transwomen, appear to be beautiful, act in a feminine manner and seek male partners. This is why Sam Winter found only 0.3 percent of respondents agreeing that they were attracted to women in his large survey. Admitting to liking women, as a transwoman, would be challenging to society there. Better to keep quiet about that, especially when confronted by a white man with a clipboard.
Yes, this does mitigate against their freedom, but at the same time, in collectivist, family-oriented cultures such as are found in southeast Asia, the trade-off is positive for both the batang bakla, as young ladyboys are known, and the ‘late bloomers’ who are mostly autogynephilic. They are accepted, usually, by those around them. (Fathers can be hostile but mothers and sisters are usually supportive. Since these cultures have domestic matriarchy, where women are in authority in the home, the children are somewhat protected from male violence; but it can still be savage and cause lasting harm.)
The ‘transgender movement’
I have become distrusting of the ‘transgender movement’ for its clear attempts to persuade the State to provide drastic surgical interventions, more or less on demand, to people too young to understand the gravity of the decisions they are taking — or that are being taken on their behalf.
This is not Asia or South America, where a person can have numerous presentations throughout their lives and still be socially accepted. Particularly because we have allowed ‘Identity Politics’ to become ascendant over family, it is not easy, in the West, to change and especially not to desist from a sex-atypical expression.
To do so requires us to leave an ‘identity group’ that we have become a part of and that has supported us; we lose all the status we gained from it and worse, it may become hostile to us. This hostility is often seen, directed by ‘trans activists’ at outspoken desisters — or indeed anyone who challenges their glib and specious narrative.
We are today finding horror-story after horror story, especially from young women who were persuaded that they were trans far too young and have undergone serious, life changing surgeries which can NEVER be undone. To allow a child to set out on a pathway that is intended to lead to sterility and surgical mutilations, is clearly irresponsible and a dereliction of our duty of care — dereliction which is being actively promoted by so-called ‘trans activists’. It does absolutely no harm at all for a young woman with Gender Dysphoria (formerly and better called Gender Identity Disorder) to wait. Testosterone is so powerful that it will turn a full grown woman into a passable man in six months.
This is not true for boys; they need support before the effects of testosterone become too damaging for them to live convincingly as women. But the fact is that the effects of oestrogen are reversible while those of testosterone are not. This is not a level playing field; boys and girls are actually different.
Desistance and the damage of trans activism
Outside the West, desistance is less unusual. Sometimes, once a transwomen is past her early thirties, she will revert to a masculine presentation. Partly this is to do with her looks. If she has not found a life partner by that stage, pressure to desist increases.
In the Philippines, for example, older transsexuals may adopt the appearance of senior women in their culture. They might adopt shorter hairstyles and less provocative clothing. In the first place, this is because there are few local men who will entertain an older transsexual, although they might well be chasing teenage ones. But in addition, this might be because status in the ‘not-men’ or Home group is based not only on motherhood but also on maturity. The transwoman is likely surrounded by the women she went to school with and she is simply conforming to group expectations. But within herself, she remains a woman.
Transvestic Autogynephiles, especially if they are strongly gynephilic, will find it relatively easier to find a partner, in their mid thirties, if they transition back to presenting as a man. This is not uncommon.
A classic example of a transvestic autogynephile detransitioning to marry a woman would be former Brazilian travesti (trans) star of over eighty porn movies, Lisa Lawer. After a career in which it is fair to say she left no sexual stone unturned, she got religion, gave up being a girl and married a cousin. When last I heard, she — now he — was a father.
So what should all this tell you? Well just this: the oft-repeated claim that ‘sexual orientation and “gender identity” are separate’ is a blatant, barefaced lie. In fact, they are the same thing.
Gender is a direct function of sexuality. In fact, sexuality is often misrepresented as ‘gender identity’, but this is a convenient obfuscation. Homosexual males are naturally feminine and, where circumstances allow, they will present as women in order to be attractive to men. These are the classic true transsexual or Blanchard HomoSexual Transsexual — so feminine that they have real difficulty living as men.
Transvestic Autogynephiles present as women because they get a powerful sexual hit just from doing so. It’s that simple. Every time a transvestite uses a women’s toilet, he gets sexual gratification. Every time he walks past a mirror, the same. Every time someone calls him ‘she’, it’s another sexualised reward. And every time a man pays her for sex or to star in a ‘porno’, the same.
Gender Identity is dependent on sexuality
‘Gender Identity’, as separate from sexuality, doesn’t exist. Men look masculine to attract women and women are feminine to attract men. That simple.
So, transsexuals look like women to attract men and Autogynephiles look like women because of the powerful sexual reward they get from performing as and even being accepted as such. All of these are absolutely rooted in sex.
While female sex drive differs from male, the same holds true. Women adopt feminine ‘gender stereotypes’ in order to ‘make themselves attractive’ — to men. Conventional lesbians adopt masculine stereotypes to attract women. ‘Lipstick lesbians’ are the equivalent of the New Gay Man — hiding in plain sight and hoping to meet someone else playing the same game.
Gender is determined by sexuality
All of these presentations are driven by sex and specifically, whom we wish to have sex with. This causes us to adopt a ‘gender expression’ that will socially conform to this, in order that we might succeed in attracting our desired partner.
Notions of pre-existing ‘gender identity’, alleged to exist outwith sexuality, are pie-in-the-sky, without a shred of actual evidence to support them. Worse, they are a politically-inspired dogma, promulgated by those who benefit from others’ belief in it.
So- called ‘gender identity’ is a canard, but gender itself is real; it is not a social construct that can be dispensed with at our whim, or the will of others. Nor is it something that can just be chosen or dispensed with. It depends on our sexuality and that is, essentially, innate. We don’t choose whom we are attracted to; we just are. Whom we are attracted to informs how we appear to others and that is gender.
The more often the lies of ‘gender identity’ and that ‘gender and sexuality are unrelated’ are repeated, the more human disasters there will be, the more unnecessary mutilations, ruined lives and suicides. The sheer irresponsibility of ‘trans activists’ in this is staggering.
This article was revised and updated on 19/02/2121
34 Replies to “Gender Identity does not exist: Explaining Transgender 3”
Popped back on this site again. I’ve been obsessively diving into the topic of Autogynephilia lately.
One thing I will say is I’m becoming convinced that Autogynephilia exists a lot within the as you say homosexual transsexuals or primary.
I have several friends in this group and they often staring in mirrors, obsessed with getting their nails done and looking more and more hyper feminine. This is even after they are getting plenty of cock or are one hormones with testosterone blockers with lower libido. They often tell me they aren’t doing it for men or sex.
Perhaps they started out acting that way by instinct in order to be more attractive to men they have a crush on and then later on they became attached to the behavior even though they aren’t doing it directly to get a man. This includes obsession with makeup, hair feminine manners, nails and more. This could be similar to an autogynephilic person who does these things to get their high or sexual thrills when younger, but then later on the high wears off and they get attached to the behavior and continue to do it.
A interesting read I found is Anne Lawrence “Men Trapped in Men’s bodies” I think she has a lot better direct perspective on the Autogynephilia topic than Blanchard. There is one Chapter in the book called “Sex with Men”.
She talks about how the Blanchard studies showed that A segment of Autogynephilic males are attracted to the validation from being treated like a lady by a man and getting the ultimate reward of having sex as a lady when getting fucked in the ass by a man. Many of these transsexuals or MTFs go on and even date and marry men.
She also has a section where she thinks that the Autogynephilic transwomen seek men to achieve their fantasy of being a heteronormative woman and avoid the taboo of being a lesbian(A fake lesbian actually) etc. Perhaps this is what is happening as you describe to this group in Asia. They conform to the heteronormative behavior of seeking men to date and validate their femininity.
But I also believe that this is bisexual and to engage or date men they have to have some attraction to men to some degree and its not purely for their feminine fantasy. Or they are attracted to a man who acts or looks a certain way that helps validate their feminine fantasy.
In the book she does point to some studies where researchers are pointing to the idea that young males have these cross gender fantasies and thoughts which is a gender dysphoria and the autogynephilic erotic element is a side effect of it. Many of the autogynephilic transwomen hold this belief. Some even claim the testosterone caused them to have the erotic component.
So are you agreeing that having Autogynephilia can be a legitimate path to transition to female medically? Are you suggesting a different path ?
One thing I will say is that If you call a homosexual transssexual a gay faggot boy who is just acting like a woman to get fucked by men, he/she will often just shrug it off and even laugh.
If you call an Autogynephilic transwoman an Autogynephilic they can get aggressive and I would worry about them getting violent. Especially the older masculine type ones.
First, thank you for your detailed and considered post. I’m glad you came back!
Regarding make-up and mirrors, it’s pretty clear that Blanchard was conservative in his estimate of the prevalence of AGP amongst HSTS, at 15%. I should say that pretty much all of them exhibit it. I don’t think there was anything unprofessional about this; however I have spoken to a couple of his original respondents who told me that the details of his questionnaire were widely known and it was believed that an admission of autogynephilic behaviour would mean a rejection — remember that Blanchard was principally assessing candidates for Genital Reconstruction Surgery.
That last tells you two things: first, that he was talking to a small percentage of the HSTS (I’ll use his terms here) because very few are interested in losing the joystick. Second, many of his respondents were giving rehearsed answers. I think B did a fantastic job, by the way, considering how much AGPs lie. About everything!
Yes no mirror or shop window may be passed, no hair be unfiddled-with, no make-up not incessantly patched. And there is no question that HSTS get autogynephilic pleasure from sex. I don’t know if you have tried, but believe me, the first time you screw an HSTS in front of a mirror, you’ll know what I am talking about.(It’s worth the effort.)
Transsexuals (Blanchard HSTS) transition to be more girly to be more attractive to men. It is really that simple. Yes they are obsessed with affirmation. Having had relationships with both transsexuals and AGP, however, I can tell you that the subjective feeling is totally different. Nowadays I only date girls whom I can be pretty sure are transsexual not AGP, from first meeting.
Anne Lawrence is herself, of course, AGP and is one of those rare delights — she is honest about it. Her book, as you say is most enlightening and really, now that Blanchard has moved into other fields, she is the leading researcher into AGP today. Her contribution is immense and I agree — mostly, she’s right.
‘I also believe that this is bisexual and to engage or date men they have to have some attraction to men to some degree and its not purely for their feminine fantasy. Or they are attracted to a man who acts or looks a certain way that helps validate their feminine fantasy’ — this is ‘pseudo-bisexualism’ in Blanchard. To explain this, think of the AGP as having created a second, pseudo-feminine personality. This, to the AGP, is a woman. Therefore it is heteronormative for this personality to be attracted to and engage in, sex with men. A lot of AGPs are viscerally homophobic; they won’t even consider sex with a male unless they are ‘en femme’.
(Actually, IMO a statement that ‘I couldn’t have sex with men before I transitioned’ is a tell for AGP.)
Agreed, transsexuals are blasé about their personal histories. They often make jokes about it. AGPs, however, frequently respond with a Narcissistic Rage Attack and yes, some would definitely get violent.
Re the ‘older masculine type’, this is the classic Western AGP. There is little resemblance between this and the most common Asian profile. They respond aggressively because to question their pathway is to challenge (rightly) their claim to be ‘real women’. And they are men. They grew up as men. They socialised as men. You can take all the hormones and have all the surgeries you like, but if what you learned was how to be a man, then that is what you will be. You cannot unlearn deep conditioning like this. It’s akin to the reasons why it is so hard to decondition children raised in religious cults, except more so. Yes they definitely do get violent and there is public record of prominent AGPs issuing threats of violence to critics.
Transsexuals (HSTS) are also capable of violence but not for those reasons. Do not cheat on one, you might end up with your John Thomas in your hand — and not in a good way.
I have received threats myself and AGPs have moved to try to deplatform me, simply for pointing out that the science is fully supportive of Blanchard; that is the main reason I focus on my blog. I might not have the readership here, but they cannot silence me, and my numbers are growing.
Western profile AGPs are men. That simple.
Haha missed the question in there.
‘So are you agreeing that having Autogynephilia can be a legitimate path to transition to female medically? Are you suggesting a different path ?’
OK. Well, they don’t transition to female, but I know what you mean. I am a libertarian, so I believe that your body is your own, to do with as you will, so long as this does not impinge on the right of others to the same freedoms. Autogynephilia is therefore as good a reason to ‘transition’ as any other.
However, there is the question of ‘who pays?’ You said ‘medically’ so I would say, given that HRT is cheap and safe, I’m fine with that. It costs around 60-80 Euros a month for a serious transitioning regime; a maintenance one, far less.I am fairly OK with that being funded socially or by insurance.
Genital Reconstruction Surgery, however, is a cosmetic procedure and it is definitely NOT a sex change. If we are arguing that cosmetic procedures are required in order to alleviate psychological anguish (which is largely a function of culture) then breast augmentation is much more effective and far less dangerous. Certainly in Asia, a minute number of transwomen undergo GRS but nearly all will have breast augmentation if they can.
Given that, I really can’t say I agree that GRS should be socially funded, for anyone. By all means, go and have it, but you pay for it. As for the argument that ‘GRS is lifesaving because without it I’ll commit suicide,’ I say, ‘Bullshit, you pull the trigger, it’s on you, not the rest of us’. And anyway the stats prove the lie — suicide rates go UP after GRS or even orchidectomy (removal of testes.)
Hey Rod, and commenters, you might want to check out this vid.
Hi C.J. Thank you for that.
Professor J Michael Bailey is a thoroughly decent man, a serious and committed scientist.I reviewed his book, The Men Who Would Be Queen HERE . Bailey has great integrity as an academic, as a scientist and as a man. Like me he is a supporter of transsexuals, and also like me, he does not stand for bullshit, nor suffer fools gladly. I have spoken to him twice and we have exchanged emails. He is on the side of the angels.
I discussed the attacks on him, which were a scandalous disgrace, in the book review. Fortunately, Andrea James, a most unpleasant character, who was one of the main orchestrators of the campaign, has dropped from view. While the other, Lynn Conway, continues to maintain a site (on her former University webspace!) she also seems to have withdrawn. McCloskey’s current position I do not know about.
The harpies — there’s no other suitable word — who tried to ruin Bailey, are the worst kind of liars and personal attackers. They are a disgrace and they do no service at all to transsexuals — or, for that matter, transvestite autogynephiles.
There are areas in which I don’t think Blanchard is universally accurate, but it is essentially so, across the globe. His description of HSTS is completely accurate. The description of autogynephiles is accurate for the sample, at the time it was taken however, while autogynephilia does definitely occur in other cultures, it appears somewhat different due to cultural influence.
Thank you for this; I might bump this up by republishing the review.
I just had one comment on a previous statement, and one question.
On autogynephilia in HSTS, let’s remember that Blanchard also stated that autogynephilia can only exist after the onset of puberty (it being sexually driven), which would not explain all the pre-pubertal boys dressing like girls (or those that grow up into homosexual men that claim girlhood as children). I think it’s easier explained as these boys engaging in female evolutionary behaviour (improving appearance to be able to attract a mate), or something like that. Or more a need of social acceptance. If their homosexuality is caused by the brain not masculinizing that should have other effects also, which we can see in their general effeminacy. My sister was born a girl/woman, and she can spend 2 hours getting ready….., i’ve got similar experiences of most other women.
On Lisa Lawer, I don’t think he/she is autogynephilic, from what I hear (read up a bit and asked some questions) it was family pressure that caused the detransitition, not any of the autist/autogynephilic reasons, such as losing gender fixation or the autogynephilic one, the reality not being as fun as the fantasy. Gay men can marry women and have children with them, it happened before. From looking at Lisas career it doesn’t seem autogynephilic to me, or her private life for that matter. Then the fact that autogynephilia isn’t suppose to be very common in South America.
OK, it is pretty clear that you do not understand the distinction between HSTS and AGP, or you are setting up a strawman. HSTS are male homosexual and AGP are male non-homosexual. So: on the childhood: all children who exhibit Gender Non Conforming (GNC) behaviour, who persist, grow up to be either feminine homosexual males or HSTS, NEVER AGP. Blanchard is right and there is no discrepancy. Yes, AGP ‘narratives’ often do describe memories of childhood GNC but these can NEVER be confirmed. Nobody around them, when they were kids, will back it up, while the relatives of HSTS will readily confirm their behaviour. The most likely explanation is that the ‘childhood memories’ of AGPs are invented as a result of the pseudo-feminine second personality establishing a plausible self-history. Much less likely, but plausibly, if such behaviour occurred (and there is no evidence that it does) then it might be a sort of ‘crush’ phenomenon, wherein the subject is having proto-sexual feelings about himself as a girl. The longer I consider this, the less plausible it seems and I have never once been able to back it up with interview. I suspect all of these stories are fabrications.
There is evidence to suggest a form of brain intersex in HSTS (but not AGP) This was predicted by Bl;anchard and sup[port in Guillamon 2016 (link on the Links Page.) In addition, HSTS display a cluster of other characteristics, eg, being small, lightly built, feminine digit ratio, strong neoteny etc etc –NONE of which are consistently shared by AGPs. The ‘brain sex’ theory might well apply to HSTS but it DOES NOT apply to AGP, who are on every parameter, not different from the average for men in their ethnicity. If you ever knew any TS, BTW, you would know that they are all — either type — as pernickety about appearance as your sister.
Lawer is obviously non-homosexual otherwise, by definition, he would never have married a woman after desisting. Also, in his porn career, he was frequently paired with natal women. Compare him to his contemporary, Dany Evangelista, who is HSTS, and the difference should be immediately obvious. The ONLY explanation for non-homosexual MTF is autogynephilia; TBH I was not surprised by Lawer’s actions.
Each ethnicity has subtle differences in the profile of HSTS. I suggest you read Noomi Herran’s piece. Brazil is probably the most ethnically mixed society on Earth. There are 6′ tall HSTS, for example. But AGP is certainly no more rare there than anywhere else. Blanchard’s profile is specific to his sample, AGPs in other samples are not quite the same and this is most marked where they transition early, in their teens (which Blanchard did not encounter.) You take any boy and stick him on hormones at 13 (as Lawer did) and 10 years later she can be very attractive; but she is still AGP.
I don’t know where you get your information from, but the suggestion of that AGP is uncommon in South America just doesn’t stand up. They might not look like Bruce Jenner, but that doesn’t mean they’re HSTS. The Western Caucasian profile of AGP is rare outside white Westerners, but there’s just as much AGP in other cultures and ethnicities, they just are a bit different to look at. Behaviourally, they are identical. (Well, Western profile AGPs are notorious bullies, which seems less the case elsewhere, but other than that…)
You misunderstand me though.
My comment was on the conversation between you and Pri, and whether or not AGP tendencies exist in homosexual transsexuals, I expressed it badly when I wrote “autogynephilia in HSTS”. You both seemed to be saying that AGP-tendencies exist in HSTS. I know the differences between the two. I just pointed out that autogynephilia can only exist after the onset of puberty, and homosexual transsexuals are feminine and crossdress and behave much like girls from early age. And yes, AGPs just like everyone else distort memories, I also think they lie/obfuscate a lot.
“Lawer is obviously non-homosexual otherwise, by definition, he would never have married a woman after desisting. Also, in his porn career, he was frequently paired with natal women.”
There are a lot of gay men married to women, that have children with those women, being gay does not prevent this. And when it comes to porn, I mean, performers are asked to do things all the time no? It doesn’t have to mean anything. Now someone is TS in porn and refuses sex with men is more likely to be AGP imo. Since I was curious about Lisa Lawer I looked at some of the forums where men that “spent time with her” hang out (when she was an escort), and they say she detransitioned and married a woman due to family pressure.
“I don’t know where you get your information from, but the suggestion of that AGP is uncommon in South America just doesn’t stand up.”
Well, both Blanchard and Anne Lawrence has said so, that autogynephilia is almost unheard of in these places. Anne Lawrence created an index on how to predict autogynephilia in populations, and it seems to work well.
‘AGP tendencies’ and the AGP profiles are not the same. Many HSTS are stimulated by seeing themselves in sexual situations in which they are playing a female role; there are natal women who do the same. But that doesn’t mean they have an AGP profile. To be autogynephilic, an Erotic Target Location Error MUST be present. Homosexuality is only one part of the HSTS profile; there are many others, all consistently represented; but they do NOT have ETLE. AGPs do. That is the difference.
It’s hardly news that some men who have sex with men are able to have relationships with women. The name for these is ‘bisexual’ not ‘homosexual’. Homosexuals are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to their own sex. Lawer is AGP/pseudo-bisexual. It’s really pretty obvious.
It doesn’t matter what men on escort forums say, because very few of them understand the difference between HSTS and AGP; at least half the men are AGP themselves anyway and I am sure, BTW, that I have spent enough time in these places to be sure I am right on that. Given that most of them seek to be ‘topped’ — which no HSTS would do, except for money — and Lawer was famous for doing just that — we need not give their opinions too much credence. Further, it doesn’t matter what the specific cause of Lawer’s detransition was; he is clearly not HSTS. Plenty of AGPs are pseudo-bisexual; and actually far more so in places like South America and Asia, where gynephilia is culturally less well accepted for a TS.
As far as I am aware, neither Blanchard nor Lawrence has actually carried out study in either South America or SE Asia. Well, I have and I can tell you, without any doubt at all, that there is a significant population of AGPs in both — at least equal to or greater than HSTS.
Perhaps what is confusing Blanchard and Lawrence is that the Western profile of AGP is indeed rare in these places; that has confused others who, by the way, also have never studied there. Very USican (world series syndrome). But the Western profile is not the only profile by any means and I can tell you right now that, without any shadow of doubt, Lawer is AGP.
I suggest you read this article, which discusses why it is that so many AGPs outside the West are pseudo-bisexual.
I have to go to the store and then make dinner, so just gonna comment quick on this one:
“It’s hardly news that some men who have sex with men are able to have relationships with women. The name for these is ‘bisexual’ not ‘homosexual’. Homosexuals are EXCLUSIVELY attracted to their own sex. Lawer is AGP/pseudo-bisexual. It’s really pretty obvious.”
I’m talking about exclusively homosexual men that marry women and father children with them. It happened in the past when homosexuality (at least male) was illegal, and it happens these days also, there are even men claiming to be exclusively homosexual but still have wives.
Also, there are some that question the existence of bisexuality, Blanchard has himself written about several types of pseudo-bisexuality (autogynephilic being one of these). There are studies that show that self-proclaimed bisexuals have a strong preference for one of the sexes, and only form long term relationships with one of the sexes. Theory being that these are either pseudo-bisexuals or heterosexuals that fetishize male on male sex and call themselves bisexuals, or just gay men that claim bisexuality while at the same time being half-way in the closet. I’ve never heard any good biological explanation for bisexuality myself, it might exist, I just never heard it, so the people starting to touch upon the fact that it might not exist (rather being a number of different things that might make people claim/believe they are bisexual) might be on to something.
You’re indulging in equivocation. A man who has sex with women and men is BY DEFINITION bisexual. That’s it. End of. Homosexuals are exclusively attracted to and have sex with their own sex, and vastly prefer to be recipients. It’s not about romantic attachments, it’s about fucking. Men who father children through coitus are obviously not exclusively homosexual, duuuh. They are bisexual. There are exclusively homosexual men who have wives (Harry Hay good example) but these liaisons are never consummated, or the man is bisexual.
You can only question the existence of bisexuality if you use a daft Freudian definition of homosexual, which makes it all about attraction to specific body types. It is only partly about that, it’s mainly about fucking. Why do you think the main gay dating site is called Grindr? Why not, ‘Meet a nice pink bloke’? or ‘Fluffy Chaps for tea and biscuits?’ I know the studies you’re talking about and their methodology was severely dubious. They have also been challenged many times, including, if you are thinking of the ones I’m thinking of, by the same department in the same university! The studies questioning the existence of bisexualism were done, if you mean the ones I think you do, twenty years ago, and, as I say, having seen the methodology…nope.
I actually think there’s more of a case to be made to say that all men are either homosexual or bisexual. I have never seen any credible evidence to suggest that ‘straight men’ — as anything other than a cultural artefact — exist at all. Homosexual males, however, do exist and they are defined as above: they have sex only with their own sex and overwhelmingly prefer to be penetrated.
So let me be clear: when I use the word ‘homosexual’ I mean a person who is exclusively attracted to his or her own sex, only has sex with people of his or her own sex, and whose preference is to be fucked. (Note: non AGP GAMPS are attracted to people of the same sex, but opposite gender. We are problematic that way.)
I would be dishonest if I did not point out that Mike Bailey, whom I think is implicated here, has a history of being misquoted and traduced. I think you’ll find that if you read his actual papers, a somewhat different picture appears.
And Lisa Lawer is still about as HSTS as my foot. Good grief she’s built like a rugby player.
Hmm, don’t see my response awaiting moderation, something go wrong?
“You’re indulging in equivocation. A man who has sex with women and men is BY DEFINITION bisexual.”
If you google the definition you will find “bisexual” refers to sexual attraction, which in my mind is how it’s always been used.
I don’t actually care how it is in your mind, I have given you the definition I am using, and will continue to use.
That definition is not from my mind. It’s the dictionary definition, and scientific definition.
What happened to the rest of my comment?
Sigh. It is the Freudian definition, which is narrow and unsustainable. The rest of your comment got cut for repeating points you’d already made — and I had countered
What do you mean by this? Are you referring to a specific country? I recall you saying that AGPs will transition back to men in their 30’s but are you now also saying that HSTS will transition to homosexual men after 30 because they can no longer get sex as a HSTS? Who are they having sex with as a ‘gay’ man after they stop presenting themselves as women?
I’m going to have to re read this article, it was written a long time ago. Many HSTS here will stop hormones and adopt a more neutral appearance in their mid to late thirties but this is not always the case. I think it does depend on personal success. They know full well that they have zero chance of picking up a straight local man at that age — if they’re chasing ladyboys, it’s much younger ones. There comes a point where it’s just not worth it, I guess. They don’t become ‘homosexual men’ and if I said that I was wrong to. They are just as much women as they always were, it’s just that they adopt a look that is much more generally found amongst 40+ married mothers — or actually, grandmothers. Given that (thinking aloud) status in the Home group (of not-men) is a function of motherhood and age, there is a possibility that they are simply replicating the appearance of post-menopausal women in their culture. I would have to research that but it seems likely. They can’t do the super-glam thing that a young LB can do with ease, especially of they stop hormones and their bodies become less feminine. But again, that is in line with what happens to a post-menopausal woman. For AGPs the situation is different; as middle aged men they would still have plenty of opportunities to find a wife.
Don’t you mean ‘top’ not ‘topped’
“Given that most of them seek to be ‘topped’ — “
I’m going to have to re read this article before responding. I’ll be as quick as I can but I have a lot on
Donna I have re read this article and made a couple of changes. The reference to being topped was in regard to non-trans AGP men, who make up about half the clients of AGP transwomen. Those men definitely want to be topped, in order to experience what they think is ‘sex as a woman’. They seek out AGP trans women to do it because they are also homophobic and are not about to let a big hairy guy do it. If they can have what appears to be a woman do it, despte the obvious cognitive dissonance (which might be part of the thrill) Its a service most HSTS are reluctant to provide but AGPs appear comfortable with it. Remember that cross-dressing AGPs are notorious for fucking each other, it’s not so great a leap.
I could not, physically, top a man. Nor would I want to. I’m a lesbian. But that does not stop men being attracted to me. Some men, as you point out, are closeted gay men and want to be fucked by trans women like me so it’s ‘not gay’. It’s a grey area to be honest. Since we’re women fucking a man, no, it’s not gay. But when the only part they’re really interested in is our cocks…yeah that’s gay.
We also get men wanting to be with us because they’re closeted trans women (or crossdressers or yes, even AGP) who want us because we might help them embrace their femininity.
Too many men want to fuck us or be us. Just another reason for me to be glad I’m a lesbian.
You’re not a lesbian. You’re a man with a paraphilia. You’re autogynephilic.
How does ‘collectivist’, ‘family-oriented’, and ‘tribal’ differ or converge in the Phillipine culture?
OK, all nmatriarchal, matrifocal, matristic, gynocratic etc cultures are collectivist. In SE ASIA and also in for example southern Europe, South America and others, and in Highland Scotland until quite recently, the basic social unit is the nuclear family centred on one woman and her husband. These are closely tied together by grandmothers, into clans of sisters and cousins. Going up a level from this, say to second cousins and further, is the tribe, more or less. Relations here are between great grandmothers and even more ancestral, but matriarchal, bonds. The distinction between clan and tribe is a movable feast, and clans can be very large. Just depends on the particular culture.
Tell me Donna, do you like to read? I have something you might like if so but it’s quite big. Let me know.
When older HSTS de-transition to gay men you said they have a lot more opportunities to have sex. Who are they having sex with?
This is something that might be changing. I know a lot more HSTS in their late thirties and beyond now who are still going strong. As long as they can stay in shape and appear beautiful, they’ll stick with it. Partly this is due to the availability of foreign men, who are increasingly interested in ladyboys (a fully feminine bakla, in this context.)
Generally, local men are only interested in very young baklas. In fact many baklas complain that when they hit 20 the supply of sex dried up — because their former partners were now in the market for a cis woman as a wife. (Remember that a lot of them are sexually active by 12, with enormous enthusiasm.) For older men, if they will go with a bakla, appearance is less critical, the availability of culo more so. After all, they all learned to love it when they themselves were teenagers, porking batang baklas up back alleys. So the older girls appear to be servicing the same men, more or less, as they were as adolescents. However a crucial difference is that the bakla will be almost certainly be paying the man for sex. In fact many men will demand payment before even going on a date with an older bakla. So here, the attractor is not beauty — which might be more difficult and certainly expensive to maintain, for an older bakla — but cold hard cash. Well, just as with men paying prostitutes, nobody cares very much what he looks like as long as he has the dosh.
Interestingly, however, the payment can be pretty nominal — the price of a couple of bottles of beer, say 100 pesos!
This so seldom happens as to be statistically negligible. But even if it were so, they’d be having sex with men. They were androphilic. Why would that change with their gender?
I was a ‘straight man’. A gynephile. Having come out as a trans woman, guess what? I’m still attracted to women. I’m a lesbian. Not that it came as a surprise to me. I’ve known since I was ten/eleven that I was a dyke. It was the world calling me a ‘boy’ that was confusing, not my sexuality.
You are not a lesbian. You are a man with a serious paraphilia that you let right out of control and now your outrageous sense of entitlement makes you think you can bully everyone else into going along with you. Well tough luck, buster, it doesn’t work on me.
The Juno Dawson link to the article you recommended is broken.
Thanks, I appreciate you telling me. I’ll look into it
Hi again. Fixed it thanks
‘This is why Sam Winter found only 0.3 percent of respondents agreeing that they were attracted to women in his large survey. Admitting to liking women, as a transwoman, would be challenging to society there. Better to keep quiet about that, especially when confronted by a white man with a clipboard.’
This is absolute bullshit. 70% of trans women are lesbian. And I couldn’t give a toss about the disapprobation of a man with a clipboard, white or otherwise.
You do realise that we were referring to a study on trans prostitutes in Hong Kong, not the West? Of course not, like so many AGPs you can’t be bothered reading the context before opening your trap and flying into a narcissistic rage. You have very poor manners and even less common sense. Poor you, how the world refuses to understand you. Well, you are NOT A LESBIAN. You are a man who fetishises the female body to the point of wanting to have one of his own. You have to be female to be a lesbian. And trust me, I couldn’t give a toss what some tiff in a skirt thinks.
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