Originally posted 2017-01-25 06:38:55.
There are two distinct types of ‘transwoman’ — Transsexuals and transvestic Autogynephiles. These are people born male who present as women. Other than that, the two types have no similarity to each other. However, this has been deliberately confused by individuals in one of these types, to advantage themselves at the expense of the other, and also to harm women. This has caused widespread misunderstanding. We need a field guide. Read on!
So, Two Types — Transsexuals and transvestic Autogynephiles.
The first type of Male to Feminine representations are homosexual transsexuals (HSTS). They tend to be: shorter than average for their ethnicity; more lightly built for their height; tend to strong neoteny or retention of juvenile features, which make them look female; are extremely feminine in manners, gait, etc, but not in a forced, excessive or theatrical manner — they are just naturally girly; as children they are sex-atypical and identify as girls; they prefer girl clothing, toys and games; as women can be very beautiful; they respond extremely well to low doses of feminising hormones.
Significantly, people in this type are strongly attracted to men from childhood and are NEVER primarily attracted to women, nor transwomen of any type.
Scientifically this type is known as ‘homosexual transsexual’ or ‘Blanchard HSTS’. I use the term ‘transsexual’ because they are completely psycho-sexually inverted in terms of their sexual desires, social roles and preferred appearance and, importantly, they are what we think a transsexual is like. They represent a complete form of Congenital Sexual Inversion, caused by anomalies in hormone delivery in utero.
They always appear young, either in teens or early twenties with very occasional outliers up to age thirty. As a general rule, such a transsexual, if she reaches the age of twenty-four without transitioning, will attempt to live as a homosexual male; it follows that significant numbers of such males are actually incomplete transsexuals.
There is strong evidence, from extensive MRI testing, to suggest that these individuals have brains shifted towards female-typical morphology in certain parameters (though causation is not confirmed.)
Individuals in the other type could not be more different. Although there are several profiles, the classic one, first described by Ray Blanchard, shows the core characteristics of all. These people are average in height, weight and build for men of their ethnicity; show no tendency to neoteny and are masculine in features and appearance; have no natural femininity in manners, gait etc, and have severe difficulties in learning these. As children they are sex-typical, though they may report episodes of arousal at women’s clothing. They respond poorly to hormones.
MRI testing shows that transvestic Autogynephiles. have male-typical brains. They often attempt to falsely adduce the MRI evidence as suggesting that they are neurologically feminised, but this is a blatant lie and a deliberate erasure of transsexuals, who actually do.
Guillamon, A. A Review of the Status of Brain Structure Research in Transsexualism
They are NEVER primarily attracted to men, although they may become so when socialising in a ‘feminine’ role. This is called ‘pseudo-bisexualism’ because they are not really bisexual at all; their desire is demonstrate how ‘feminine’ they are by attracting male lovers (though there is evidence that these lovers are themselves of the same type.) However, many do learn to enjoy the sensations provided by anal penetration and may even make this their main or sole sexual practice.
Transvestic Autogynephiles may predate on transsexuals, who may, in turn, be willing to accept their advances for material reward. However, their primary sexual attraction is to women, and specifically, to themselves as women. (This is called an Erotic Target Location Error or ETLE.)
Autogynephilia could be described as an extreme form of narcissistic emasculation fetish and it may also be associated with a masochistic fetish.
These individuals are known to science as ‘non-homosexual’. Blanchard’s description of them as Autogynephilic, however, is both taxonomically accurate and more descriptive (the word means ‘a man’s propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman’.) Since autogynephilia can appear in both non-crossdressing and crossdressing forms, I call autogynephiles who do so ‘transvestic Autogynephiles.’
Transvestic Autogynephiles always appear when older than transsexuals, although these ages vary with culture. In the West this is typically in middle age, with median in Blanchard’s sample being over forty. However in the Asian profile, they usually appear much younger, often in the age range fourteen to twenty. This was supported by a recent study in Cambodia. This reduction in age is becoming more apparent in Western individuals too, suggesting that social intolerance of their fetish has tended to make them suppress or hide it. Covert transvestic Autogynephiles exist in Asia too, for example the shadowy ‘silahis’ of the Philippines.
As a result of beginning hormones early, Asian profile transvestic Autogynephiles may become strikingly attractive, but this is much less the case in the West. Furthermore, even amongst young transitioning transvestic Autogynephiles, the skeletal differences from transsexuals are marked: they are taller, bigger, heavier and less feminine, (allowing for exceptions caused by early hormone usage.) Further, while they may become pseudo-bisexual, their relations with men are never comparable to transsexuals’ or women’s.
Such individuals, if they retain a hetero-normative male desire for women, may claim that they are ‘lesbian’ or ‘trans-lesbian’ in order to sexually predate on real lesbian women. This is a travesty; One requires to have been born with a vagina to be a lesbian. Transvestic Autogynephiles have the same lust as any other man, as regards women.
A relationship between a man and a transsexual is hardly different from one between a man and a woman, save for the genitalia (if pre-op.) Transsexuals very rarely are prepared to use their genitalia to penetrate and men who seek this will be disappointed, unless money is involved. Relationships with transvestic Autogynephiles are at best, for a man, bizarre.
Even with Asian profile transvestite autogynephiles, one can never lose the unsettling feeling that one is in bed with a person who appears to be an attractive woman, but is in every other way a man. (As one correspondent put it, they are ‘more like “gay” relationships, because they are men’.) In contrast, a transsexual’s physical, emotional and social responses are so feminine that it is almost impossible to credit that she was actually born male.
While transvestic Autogynephiles may work as prostitutes, especially in Asia (as do transsexuals), attempts at serious relationships with them are probably best left to non-transvestic Autogynephilic men.
Genital Reconstruction Surgery
If a transsexual has Genital Reconstruction Surgery (GRS) to form a cosmetic vagina, she does so in order to make it easier for her to find and keep male partners and to be able to perform fully as a woman in all social situations. Her concern is being ‘outed’ as trans, particularly in the latter, where a bikini party at the beach could spell the end of years of carefully constructed identity as a woman. Further, she will use her cosmetic vagina exactly as a woman would, in sex with men. Her desire to have GRS is the result of factors outside herself.
Transvestic Autogynephiles who undergo GRS have completely different objectives and most of these devolve partly to self-affirmation and partly to androphobia, to which they are prone. In the former, the individual seeks to be able to look in a mirror and see himself as ‘a real woman’. In the latter — and the two may act in tandem — the subject comes to so loathe his male genitalia that its removal becomes an obsession.
(Note: recent evidence, in 2023, suggests that far greater caution is needed in the provision of GRS. I think it is ill-advised except in a tiny number of cases.)
From the above it should be clear that a transsexual’s sexual self-image and everything else about her is focussed outside herself, in the society within which she operates, as a woman. Her actions are about enabling her to live as a woman, to attract suitable partners and to reduce her vulnerability in daily life as much as possible — in which she is very much like any other woman. A transvestic Autogynephile’s actions are all, invariably, focussed on himself and his fetish with ‘appearing to be’ a woman. Thus his condition is one of extreme narcissism associated with, in the classic Western profile at least, a sociopathic desire to bully everyone around him into accepting him as a woman. Only a tiny proportion of transvestic Autogynephiles can successfully ‘pass’ as women, while most male-to-feminine transsexuals can do it effortlessly.
As has been often said, ‘if you have to keep telling everyone how feminine you are, you probably aren’t very.’ The transvestic Autogynephile’s obsession with ‘gender pronouns’, naming conventions and so on are perhaps the strongest indicator of how completely lacking in femininity these individuals actually are. Compare this to the actions of transsexuals, who are routinely taken to be women by everyone around them and who simply live their lives as such. About the last thing one would do is to attract attention to that fact that she is transsexual by making a fuss about pronouns. (If you look like a bricklayer in fishnets, however…)
The transvestic Autogynephile’s obsession is the result of years of clandestine cross-dressing and ‘bingeing’ on clothes purchases, solo masturbation while cross dressed and self-pleasuring sexual orgies with other Autogynephiles. These phases are followed by ‘purges’ in which the subject throws out all his accessories and enters a period of masturbatory abstention. This fails and the cycle begins again, but with greater intensity. The increasing shame and self-loathing caused become focussed on the genitalia, which the subject begins to identify as the cause of this trauma.
(After all, his curious lifestyle, as a covert transvestic Autogynephile, entirely exists to maximise his orgasmic pleasure.) Sooner or later, the idea forms that the torment might ease if only the penis were to be removed. At this point he joins the queue for GRS.
Unfortunately, and largely because they are men, transvestic Autogynephiles are far more strident than transsexuals and in the West appear to be a majority (though they might not be). Even in Asia, the most vocal ‘trans advocates’ are invariably transvestic Autogynephiles. In the West, this stridency causes the needs and even the existence of transsexuals to be erased and often overlooked by the mainstream media and public; the results are somewhat different in Asia, where both transsexuals and transvestic Autogynephiles are seen as ‘gay’. Again in the West, the damage is exacerbated by transvestic Autogynephiles’ attempts to suppress the word ‘transsexual’ and replace it with the meaningless and unscientific term ‘transgender.’
They are doing this deliberately, to colonise and erase transsexual identities.
Transsexuals live in the real world; they are usually well grounded and pragmatic. Tending to be honest, or at least, no more dishonest than anyone else in their culture, they have realistic life-expectations and goals that they can achieve. Transvestic Autogynephiles, on the other hand, live in a fantasy world where a 6’4″ ageing sports jock in a wig with a bra full of socks is as winsome as a seventeen-year old girl. The sheer impossibility of reconciling such wishful thinking with reality, together with the fact that they spend much of their lives inhabiting internal sexual fantasies in which they are their own lovers, makes them into Walter Mitty fantasists and pathological liars. (This is less the case in Asia, to be fair; but the issue is only one of degree.)
Here are some points to remember about transsexuals and transvestic Autogynephiles:
There are two completely different types of people born male who wish to appear as women, MtF transsexuals and transvestic Autogynephiles;
Neither type are actually women (they’re transwomen duuh);
It follows that neither type are ‘real’ women;
They certainly are not ‘born women’ or they wouldn’t be trans;
Transsexuals can indeed be naturally feminine-bodied, but transvestic Autogynephiles are men in more-or less sophisticated woman suits;
Transsexuals can be very beautiful, but Western profile transvestic Autogynephiles almost never are and struggle to appear presentable;
Even Asian profile transvestic Autogynephiles, who may be very attractive, are easy to distinguish from transsexuals simply because of their much bigger physical size;
Transsexuals invariably are attracted to men physically, exactly as women are;
Transvestic Autogynephiles never are, although they may exhibit pseudo-bisexualism;
In socially completing as a woman, a transsexual brings her social role and gender appearance into line with her underlying sexual desire for men;
In transitioning, transvestic Autogynephiles are cosplaying what they imagine a woman would do and want to look like. MtF transsexuals can’t help but be feminine.
If you’re sitting next to a transsexual on a train, the chances are you won’t know, but if you’re sitting next to a transvestic Autogynephile you definitely will;
‘Male privilege’ doesn’t exist, but if it did, transsexuals would never have it, while transvestic Autogynephiles would, on account of them being men;
All transwomen are by definition male, that is, they have XY chromosomes (even after GRS, it’s cosmetic only). Intersex people are something else altogether, so please do not conflate them;
Having said that, transsexuals typically have no difficulty passing naturally and living their lives as women while transvestic Autogynephiles have to threaten everyone with violence so they will call them what they want to be called but manifestly are not — women.
Transsexuals have been using women’s spaces for decades and NOBODY FUCKING WELL NOTICED until a bunch of grown men in frocks came along to toss off in women’s toilets, flounce about like idiots and generally bugger it up;
No transsexual I have ever met has denied any of the above: reality denial is an Autogynephilic preoccupation.
Links to the science underlying the above, in the form of peer-reviewed papers, can be found HERE
7 Replies to “Transsexuals and transvestic Autogynephiles: How to Spot Them.”
Amusing attack. Since you follow these HSU studies and identify as a GAMP are you familiar with this one.
Sexual Arousal Patterns of Autogynephilic Male Cross-Dressers
GAMP men and AGP crossdressers have the same arousal patterns. It was shown in this study. This is regardless if the GAMP men claim to be AGP or not. He also classifies GAMP men as having a paraphiic interest in GAM she males.
If they want to get more full spectrum why don’t they get some HSTS and test their arousal patterns. Will they be aroused by Female-Male porn? GAM she male porn? Gay porn?
I went and watched a Blair White video he/She admits that they prefer straight porn not gay porn? Per the Blanchard definition HSTS should be aroused only by gay porn.
Personally myself and other AGP types would score on arousal to straight porn but not gay porn similarly.
At least in the West men often want a relationship with a transsexual AGP or not because they can relate better with another male essentially and more open to sexual exploits.
Many HSTS have a very flamboyant exaggerated feminism and often come off as highly charged gay men in female attire in their sexual advances. I’ve seen this in Asia too.
You haven’t addressed the overlap of AGP and HSTS or narcisism that even exists among HSTS about their body and feeling validation as a female. Look at how many HSTS also pursue plastic surgery and exaggeration of the female look(Silicone etc). Of course AGP do this too.
Most HSTS live in lower means than AGPs. AGPs more often have more education and financial resources. It won’t help to fight against the AGPs to further their cause.
No, the paper you quote does not say what you claim that it does. The study (with which I was familiar) ONLY looked at a sample of AGP GAMP men, so I don’t knopw where you got the ‘claimed to be or not’. No non AGP men were studied.
This renders the rest of your comment somewhat superfluous.
I do agree that there is some overlap in idealised body image between transsexuals (HSTS) and AGP and have mentioned this several times.
Whether or not transsexuals live on lower means than transvestite autogynephiles is irrelevant. Ths point is that they have no relationship to each other. transsexuals are fully psyco-sexually inverted, transvestite autogynephiles are men in dresses. Otherwise your final comment sounds like a threat; but then transsexuals would hardly be surprised to be threatened by an AGP, would they?
Riley Dennis is a total joke. He doesn’t take any hormones doesn’t make any effort to look like a woman or sound like one. He likes women making him a heterosexual man. His transfem identity is along the lines of Dave Muscato. I can see why people get pissed at the trans movement with these snowflakes.
The original guidelines by the WPATH or other government entities in the USA called for transitioning to a woman to require 1 year of supervised living in the female role while taking HRT. After that you may change your Identity on government documents to mark female with proper letters from therapists, doctors etc. At this point you may enter womens only spaces. After 1-2 more years you are eligible for SRS surgery.
Somehow we got away from this process by allowing all these identities. These original guidelines had nothing to do with AGP vs HSTS.
The paper did not distinguish or filter for AGP GAMP men. It simply looked at GAMP men and AGP Crossdressers.
Quote from Paper:
For example, there is substantial association between autogynephilia andgynandromorphophilia(GAMP),or sexual attractionto gynandromorphs (GAMs), colloquially ‘‘she-males.’’ GAMP men’s sexual arousal patterns in response to GAM, female, and
male stimuli have recently been characterized.
In the present study,we extended this understanding by comparing the sexual arousal
patterns of autogynephilic male cross-dressers, GAMP men,
heterosexual men,and homosexual men.Erotic stimuli included
sexually explicit videos of men, women, and GAMs. Autogynephilic
men were much more similar in their arousal patterns
to heterosexual and GAMP men than to homosexual men.
However, similar to GAMP men, autogynephilic men showed
increased arousal by GAM stimuli relative to female stimuli
compared with heterosexual men.
But its also a logical conclusion that an AGP gets aroused by female and GAM porn and a GAMP (even one who says he is not AGP) Gets aroused by female and GAM porn.
What should be present is at least some in the GAMP group should get aroused by Homosexual porn.
Most AGPs and HSTS live in peace and respect together. Never any real threats. I’ve seen HSTS especially in the Latin or black communities get violent with men who insult them. Its more a cultural thing sadly.
I see you did’nt read the paper
Autogynephilic male cross-dressers were recruited using adver-
tisements placed in stores, (etc)
The data on other men were not collected as a part of this study, but from previous ones. However, nothing in them supports your assertion that: ‘This is regardless if the GAMP men claim to be AGP or not’. What you are trying to do is to delegitimise the testimony of non-AGP men who are attracted to transsexuals by on one hand suggesting that there is some equivalency between transsexuals and cross-dressing men, which is what all transvestite autogynephiles are, and that their partners are, in spite of their own testimony and field observation, themselves AGP. Both these assertions are fallacious, and fall in line with the consistent attempts by transevestite autogynephiles to pretend that their condition is somehow universal. It isn’t.
Regarding porn, a good many transsexuals do indeed watch gay porn but many prefer straight. Transsexuals are attracted to masculinity and there is nothing masculine about a man being fucked. When they do like gay porn, this is almost always of the ‘daddy/junior’ type, featuring very masculine men penetrating highly effeminate boys. However my caeat is that I can’t watch gay porn so my observation is limited here.
‘an AGP gets aroused by female and GAM porn and a GAMP (even one who says he is not AGP) Gets aroused by female and GAM porn.’ This is, again, a traduction and very far from being a’logical conclusion’. No. You are attempting to falsely induce that GAMP and AGP are contiguous sets, which they are not. AGP GAMP men are one subset of GAMP men. While research into non-AGP GAMP men is less available, it is obvious from from field observation that a significant proportion of such men are not AGP. They may be bisexual in a non-standard manner (because they neither receive penetration nor are attracted to masculinity) but that atually seems a superfluous conclusion. More likely is that they are less constrained by social mores and simply accept gorgeous transsexuals as women, regardless of their genitalia. I have already stated that it is basically not credible that a non-AGP man would be attracted to a Western transvestite autogynephile, simply on account of the latter’s masculinity. While this may be less obvious in Asia, an experienced observer will spot the difference immediately. And while Asian-profile transvestite autogynephiles can be both beautiful and perform as talented prostitutes, serious relationships with them, for a straight men, are basically impossible — though they can be very good friends. (I accept that what passes for logic amongst transvestite autogynephiles frequently defies reason.)
Also, regarding violence by transsexuals against men: this is well documented and is largely against non-transestite AGP men. Such men are likely to be asked to be penetrated i sex, since it provides the emasculation that their fetish requires. However, a transsexual is sexually a woman, and immediately loses all respect for such a man. She may well be abusive and possibly violent. Essentially, she is looking for a man and instead has been landed with a closeted transvestite AGP. You should read Don Kulick ‘Travesti’ or my own ‘The Warm Pink Jelly Express Train’ for more complete descriptions.
Insofar as there is a cultural element in such hostility, it is against the AGP’s pretence of being a man, while in the bedroom, performing as a woman. However, this is scarcely limited to transsexual or transvestite-AGP relations with men: such men are often married and will ask their wives to penetrate them with a dildo or strap-on. They will pretend that this is because of physical pleasure, but, as with so many things AGP, that is a lie. What they seek is the emasculation and if it hurts, so much the better.
‘What should be present is at least some in the GAMP group should get aroused by Homosexual porn.’
Why should that be so? Before I began field research in this area I did many years of research online and in that time, getting on for 8 years, I only ever came across one trans-attracted man who admitted to liking gay porn, and he self-identified as a gay ‘top’ (which doesn’t really exist) with a liking for very young, effeminate men; his liking of girly-boys was a developmnt of this. Such men are not really ‘gay’, they’re just horny. This is because they are attracted to femininity (boys more feminine than it’s possible for a boy to be) and they only penetrate. They therefore do not satisfy either of the criteria for homosexuality in men.
A good few are fully registered arse-bandits, however. If a man likes anal sex (ie, likes to penetrate), then other forms pale somewhat quickly. Most of us like oral and vaginal sex, but anal is la creme de la creme. Most women refuse it, however (though happily, not all.) With a pre-op transsexual you’re onto a sure thing in that regard.
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