Originally posted 2018-10-05 06:25:07.
Something that I have thought about a lot over the last ten years is this: why would a man not want to date a trans woman? I see, practically on a daily basis, the hot stares of men as they scope a trans woman. Men can’t stop themselves.
Most amusing, perhaps, is the Western male, the Anglo-Saxon particularly (Mediterranean types have a different take on life.) So often I have been sitting in a bar watching one of them, or sometimes in the same company. I have seen them practically salivating over a girl nearby, and then their reactions as one of their companions leans forward and murmurs something crass like ‘You’ll get more than you expect with that one, mate, it’s a bloke!’
Instantly, from practically shaking with lust, a transformation occurs: the face screws up angrily, the man shakes his head. But why? The girl didn’t change; she’s as hot as she ever was. In fact she hasn’t even moved, she’s still standing there, looking as drop-dead gorgeous as only a really hot transsexual woman can.
It’s not lack of attraction
There is a legitimate reason why one might not wish to date any person: lack of attraction or interest. We all respond to our inbuilt attractions and we don’t generally want to pursue, romantically, people who fall outside those. This is maybe a form of objectification, but everyone does it. It’s hardwired into us. We evolved as tree-dwelling fruit-eaters, so we discriminate. It’s called choice and everyone wants a ripe banana.
But that was not the point of the question, which was why one would avoid dating a transsexual woman if one were attracted to her. Our drooling Anglo at the bar couldn’t wait to get his sweaty paws on the toothsome delight before him, in her six-inch heels and legs that went to the moon. No. Our boy was attracted all right.
This is a whole other can of worms. It’s about a man who finds a particular person attractive and interesting enough to want to have sex with, but will not do so because she has — or used to have — non-standard genitalia.
That there is pure transphobia, open and shut. Our man doesn’t even want to buy someone, whom he really would like to know physically, even a drink, because she’s transsexual. That is an irrational fear of trans women, otherwise known as transphobia.
Tip of the Iceberg
There is an imagined ‘bargain’, in which ‘being a woman’ implies that one’s genitalia, not normally exposed to view, must be of a certain order. But that reduces all women, not just trans women, to sex objects that are defined entirely by the nature and history of their genitalia.
This idea, that, having paid a woman sufficient attention, or money, for her to consent to have sex with him, a man has a right to expect her genitalia to be of a certain order, is a pernicious assumption, deeply damaging to all women. This is what leads to the increasing numbers of purely cosmetic labial removal surgeries, amongst other absurdities and, in some benighted cultures, far worse. Goodness knows I’m no feminist, but mutilating oneself in such a way, in order to satisfy the expectations of others, seems to me to be absolutely outrageous.
But if women should not be measured by their genitalia, then why should trans women be so? Many have Genital Reconstruction Surgery in order to feel more comfortable as women, and to have sex as women. Are they then to be shunned as ‘fakes’ or ‘cheats’ because they used to have something that they went to very great lengths to change?
Transphobia is deadly
Furthermore, this mindset can be lethal to transsexual women. Jennifer Laude was killed because a US Marine on shore leave, called Joseph Pemberton, discovered that she had a penis — after he had taken his pleasure of her. Very much the same happened to Gwen Araujo.
Two words that end a relationship
Transphobia causes harm on a less drastic level too. I once spent a week trying to support a dear friend who was agonising about whether she should tell a man who had been expressing serious hots for her, that she was transsexual. Of course I advised her to, but I hated myself for doing it. I had no choice because transphobia can be deadly to a transsexual woman.
My friend was under no moral or ethical obligation to tell the man details about her genitalia. The man pursuing her was not seeking to marry and start a family, he just wanted some sex and believe me, a trans woman can do that all right. But in order to prevent her getting into a situation in which she might get killed, I had to say that she should inform this man about something that he had no right to know, at least at this stage. Because of transphobia, her genitalia suddenly became the only thing about her that mattered.
So what if she’s gorgeous, smart, funny, talented, great company, affectionate and charming? Doesn’t conform to a certain expectation of women, so none of that matters and she had to cry herself to sleep over yet another guy who suddenly lost interest. Like countless other beautiful transsexual women, all the time.
As they say ‘Two words that end a relationship are “I’m transsexual”‘. Who cares about their support and loyalty, their genuine love and affection, the warmth of their bodies in the night, the way they slip their hands into yours or lean against you? An extra little bit of meat somehow trumps all that.
Telling them that these men are fools who don’t know what they lost out on seems small comfort.
In reducing this lovely woman to the contents of her pants, transphobia does the SAME THING to every other woman. They are also reduced to genitalia, and not just the genitalia they have now, the organs they were born with. Birth genitalia, in this world view, is all that counts. Therefore that’s all a woman is — genitals on legs. How staggeringly presumptuous and demeaning could it possibly get?
Over the years I have had a great deal of feedback from feminists, who seem to think that looking like a woman is their prerogative and theirs alone; that transsexual women are ‘appropriating their identity’ or ‘colonising their bodies’. (While decrying femininity as ‘stereotypical’!) I hate to break it to you, muh sistuhs, I don’t care. Transsexual women have been around for many thousands of years, probably since our species evolved and I don’t imagine they’ll be going away any time soon; so suck it up, buttercup. If a transsexual woman makes herself more attractive to men than you do, too bad. It’s called competition in the free market; and let’s be honest, they have a better game than most feminists do.
Gwen Araujo’s murderers — who beat her to death with various implements, including a cast-iron skillet and a shovel before setting her on fire — were egged on by cis women. Why? Because she ‘usurped’ the status they thought they alone had a right to, by dint of their genitalia?
Jennifer Laude, Gwen Araujo and thousands of others were brutally killed by men who had had sex with them, but could not stand the idea of others knowing that they had been intimate with someone with a dick. Why would anyone do that? Because of transphobia, that’s why.
These transsexual women were murdered by their lovers because of their expectations. Expectations driven by the people around them, the beer-buddy whispering ‘that’s a man, dude’ and the jealous women whose anger at what they saw as illegitimate competition led them to encourage a stupid man to think he had been dishonoured — by someone who gave him exactly what he wanted, sex. Exactly what he had pursued her for. Exactly what his culture said he would be lionised for — knocking off a beautiful woman.
That is about as sick as it gets. Seduce a woman, achieve your desired end and then kill her because her genitalia don’t look like what your buddies say they should. What, you morons can’t notch your bedpost so you bludgeon a girl to death instead?
Not only is all this transphobic and misogynistic, it is profoundly cowardly because it is all about one thing: fear of penises — even in the past tense. Big tough manly men indeed, so afraid of a few ounces of human flesh that they will kill a woman after having sex with her. It is utterly despicable.
The only legitimate reason for not dating any woman is that you’re not attracted to her. That’s fair enough. We all have triggers. We should try to be open and fair, and to look beneath the surface, but attraction is instinctive.
Personally, I don’t give a hoot if you don’t like to date transsexual women, because it means you’re a transphobe and frankly, that makes you a piece of shit. But don’t give us the crap about preferences, or ‘dating is about making babies’. You know perfectly well that dating is not primarily about marriage, but about getting your cock serviced and a transsexual woman is just as adept at that as any other woman — and possibly a good deal more so.
You’d jump into bed with any of them
The fact is that you would jump into bed with any of the women on this page, as long as you didn’t know they were transsexual. That’s plain old transphobia and there is no point in trying to deny it. You’d have delighted in their bodies, fucked them blue, and been happy to put that notch on your bed-post — but all because of a couple of ounces of meat, you would beat them to death instead.
Not dating transsexual women because you’re transphobic doesn’t make you Adolf Hitler. You’re missing out on a great experience, something that might change you, possibly improve you. You might even pass the love of your life by, and never know it. But if you want to be transphobic, it’s up to you. Miss out. Stay away from them, if you are, though. Avoid those places where transsexual women, however they describe themselves, congregate, hoping to meet men. Go and be a monk somewhere. It will be safer — for them; because you know you can’t control yourself — and you can’t tell the difference; nobody can, until the clothes are strewn. And, quite frankly, the rest of us will not have to be disgusted by your bigotry.
Just don’t give us the bullshit that your reluctance to date a transsexual woman because of her genitalia is anything other than transphobia. That is what it is all right.
And for Christ’s sake, stop killing them.
49 Replies to “Why would a man not want to date a trans woman?”
The dating has different ways in which a lover can always express of what is in their heart. Through this, they can have ways to satisfy their emotions. For they just always communicate through phone calls, video calls and or by email. By this means, they cannot fully satisfy their feelings towards each other.
False advertising no matter how attractive a man wants to put his penis in a vagina
Which many trans women are equipped with. And anyway, how would you know? You don’t have a dick.
Wow this is such a militant, biased and emotional article
“I expect you to respect my views while I call yours ridiculous”
Hey so I was wondering where the buck stops – try transableism (people believe they’re actually disabled and have to remove their limbs to avoid feeling like they’re in the wrong body, transracialism, transageism etc
None of this is backed by medical research and that which has been done sees this as a mental disorder, this is all social justice warriors afraid of the fact of mortality, of limitation and ultimately of truth
We don’t get to choose our race, culture, gender or disabilities. And if someone has disturbed thinking, I don’t want to date them
And you can’t tell whether or not their thinking is disturbed necessarily by just looking – and if we’re talking about allowing someone to be intimate with me, I should be allowed to know as much as it takes for me to feel comfortable and pull out if I don’t – same as any real girl I would want to ask out. For no reason should she have to sleep with me because she doesn’t want to offend me and there should obviously be no double standard
As much as you don’t have to accept my views, I don’t have to accept yours and you have no right or medical basis to tell me I’m the delusional one
Well, to start with, transsexualism has indeed been identified and properly described by science. I suggest you read the work of Dr Ray Blanchard. There are two completely distinct conditions in which people born male either desire sex changes or to live as women. The first is true transsexualism or HomoSexual Transsexualism (HSTS). These individuals are attracted to men and are naturally very feminine. The second type are called Autogynephiles. These, which are prominent in the West but much less so elsewhere, are fetishistic crossdressing men.
Janet Mock is transsexual and Bruce Jenner is autogynephile.
I certainly would not blame anyone, male or female, for not wishing to date an autogynephile, since these are almost always very obviously men. However this article was really discussing transsexuals, who are women in every way but their birth sex and often highly attractive, as well as being very strongly attracted to men. The fact is that most transsexuals can easily attract men. The question therefore is, ‘if you would date her if you didn’t know she was transsexual, why would you not date her if you did?’ And the only answer to that is bigotry, which you appear close to displaying.
Just because they tell you something in church doesn’t make it true; rather the opposite, if anything.
I like your article and I was thinking “Wow. Finally a cis guy who gets it.” And then you went on your own little transphobic rage.
Dr Ray Blanchard’s theories have long been debunked. Ask yourself, “Did I merely refer to this debunked theory because I of my own patriarchally-conditioned expectations.?” Which all said and done sadly reinforces PI’s statement of, “I expect you to respect my views while I call yours ridiculous”.
But the real scary part is your writing opens on the pretence that your supportive of transgender people,
Well hi, Emily. How nice of you to grace my pages with your lofty presence once more.
Firstly, I am not ‘cis’. I am a man. this can be differentiated from ‘transman’ by the prefix ‘trans’ in the latter case, if necessary.
Blanchard has anything but ‘been debunked’ In fact, his Typology is the basis of the DSM-V’s description of the two male forms of dysphoria, though they call them ‘early onset’ and ‘late onset’ rather than ‘homosexual’ and ‘autogynephilic’ respectively. However, in all other regards, they are precisely as Blanchard defined them. Blanchard simply goes from strength to strength, despite the efforts of delusional blokes in skirts like you, ‘Emily’.
There is no ‘patriarchy’ at least, not in the West. I don’t give a fuck if you ‘respect’ my views or not: you are a man with a serious mental disorder who thinks he is a woman. I’ve as much interest in the local fruitcake who thinks he’s Napoleon ‘respecting’ me. Frankly, it might be more entertaining than the relentless grind of autogynephilic men like you, wallowing in self delusion, self-loathing and self-absorption.
‘Transgender’ is a meaningless word, in a world where a girl with short hair thinks that makes her so. Autogynephilic men like you need help, but not for one minute do I think that ‘transition’ will do so. You are a transvestite, please deal with it. Get your woman suit on and crack one off to the mirror.
Given that ‘transgender’ is a meaningless term, I can neither support nor not support it. However, I do very much support Transsexuals. These are, in Blanchard terms, HomoSexual TransSexuals (HSTS) or, in DSM-V, those with ‘early onset’ dysphoria. The evidence strongly suggests that these have some form of innate intersexualism that causes a number of changes, eg, their natural femininity, natural petiteness, tendency towards feminised digit ratios, and, of course, their female sexuality and concomitant desire for men (in MtF).
Since gender is the outward expression of sexuality, these individuals naturally feel most comfortable as women, and those who do not transition, that is, gender-conforming homosexuals, suffer varying degrees of Gender Dysphoria. This is because Homosexual Gender Dysphoria is caused by a mismatch between sexuality and gender. (Non-homosexual Gender dysphoria in males, what you have, ‘Emily’, is the product of a narcissistic paraphilia called, wait for it, Autogynephilia.) You bear NO RELATIONSHIP to HSTS, so stop pretending you do.
It’s always so nice to hear from a bitter, self-loathing, transvestite autogynephile like you ‘Emily’; it reminds me of whom and what I am campaigning for — True Transsexuals, not brickies in tights. Have fun being a transvestite, but do not pretend to be transsexual or a woman. You cannot be these things. You’re a straight bloke in a frock with a severe mental disorder.
I think I have a right to know that who I was dating was always a woman. Why? Because I want biological children and morally, that transgender person is still physically the other sex. I would be hurt to learn after I pursued a woman, that I had engaged in sexual activities with a man! That I have been tricked…because that person is still a man, and no manner of surgeries, paperwork, or brain activity would change that. In that case, I would be the victim of deciet!
The stupid in this response is almost funny. Gosh you think that your precious little ‘manhood’ has rights over women? Any women? It doesn’t. Actually nobody is under any moral obligation to tell you anything about their past, unless they are carrying an STD that might harm you and that’s only for sexual relations. Certainly no transwoman is under a moral obligation to tell you she has or had a dick, although I advise that they do, so that blinkered morons like you don’t beat them to death. While a few autogynephilic men do pursue relationships with men, almost all transsexuals who would date a man are Blanchard HSTS or true transsexuals. They are not, and never were, men, even though they were born male. Nobody is born a man, you mutt, we LEARN it. Just like women learn to be women. Sex is innate, gender is learned behaviour. That simple. So your precious whingeing about having ‘pursued a woman and whatever with a man’ is just transphobic horseshit. However the solution for you is simple: don’t date, have sex with or marry any woman, and that way the stupid you are carrying will be kept out of the gene pool. Do the right thing.
Complete bullshit in this entire article. So you expect to respect your choices as a trans, but my choice as a straight male mean have transphobia. Get real. Sorry fun fact here no matter what you change on the outside you can never change the inside. Trans people will always have their birth gender written into their DNA. A trans woman will never be a real woman and a trans man will never be a real man. So how about you people stop trying to shame people into dating trans.
Well, for the record I am not, nor have I ever been, trans in any way at all. So your little transphobic rant seems somewhat redundant. Oh but look, your stupid is showing. ‘Trans people will always have their birth gender written into their DNA’. Fuckwit, NOBODY has their gender written into their DNA. They have their SEX written into their chromosomes. Gender is a set of LEARNED BEHAVIOURS, and you don’t have to be born female to have learned to be a woman (feminine gender) or be male to have LEARNED to be a man. Furthermore, no true transsexual, who are the ones interested in men, I have ever met, significantly more than the ZERO that you have, has ever claimed to be a ‘real woman’. Not one. I know Bruce ‘Caitlyn’ Jenner does, but he’s not even a true transsexual, far less any kind of a woman.
Frankly I would never ‘shame’ someone into dating anyone, and anyway, TS women do not need bigoted pricks like you in their lives. So off you go and suck your thumb, cause you’re way too fat to reach your cock — and I’m sure nobody else is servicing that for you, bud.
As a person who desires 4-6 biological children, I think I have a right to turn down someone politely for not being able to give me children. I am petrified of having fertility issues anyway because of how horribly expensive it is to have babies with so many problems like what my friends have. To me, I would have a hard time continuing a relationship with a cisman if he had a vasectomy, actually, as sad as it is, I probably couldn’t continue. Especially if I was not made aware of the fact that he can never have children with me. As much as it would break my heart or make me feel bad, I know I want to try to have children naturally. And as some people have not yet had the surgery and may still have female genitalia, I would turn them down based of off a sexual preference that can’t be met at the time, but not simply because of who/what they are as a transgender. I understand both sides of the argument.
since the brain of transgendered women are partly female in structure and partly male, and the chromosomes are male, I would like to know why transwomen want to be identified as “women”; why not be called “intersex”? comfortable with being called simply a “transwoman” or “intersex”? I understand the desire to be like everyone else, but there are many people who are different in a myriad of ways….why do you HAVE to be part of the binary?
Firstly, this is a whopping misrepresentation: ‘the brain of transgendered women are partly female in structure and partly male’. NO. In fact only the brains of one group of transwomen differ from standard male brains. These individuals are known as ‘homosexual transsexuals’ or ‘Blanchard HSTS’. I just call them ‘transsexual’ because the homosexual adjunct is tautologous.
There is another group, called ‘non-homosexual transsexuals’, ‘autogynephiles’ or (if they crossdress, they don’t all) transvestite autogynephiles. These are an apparent majority in the West. These have absolutely standard male brains. You will find the relevant studies, by Savic & Arver, Rametti et al, and Guillamon et al on my ‘Links’ page.
While we can argue therefore that there is a case for some transwomen to be classified as having a form of brain intersex (see Guillamon 2016), this ONLY applies to those who are strictly androphilic, ie attracted only to men. These are the classic transsexuals or Blanchard HSTS. Unfortunately, autogynephilic transwomen (more properly ‘transvestite ayutogynephiles’) have repeatedly tried to twist the data to suggest that they have these brain anomalies too. THEY DO NOT. Bruce ‘Caitlyn’ Jenner’s brain is 100% male. I make this point fiurmly because the ‘we have female brains’ is a standard trope utilised by autogynephilic activists and there is not a word of truth in it. They don’t.
Regarding your next point, interestingly, most transsexuals are happy to accept that they are male in origin and not ‘real women’. A few, who have been listening to too many USican gender-preachers, might disagree, but in my experience they are rare. The insistence on being a ‘real woman’ is a reasonably good indicator that the claimant is autogynephilic. These do try to claim the ‘intersex’ identity, but that is offensive both to transsexuals and more importantly to the many people who have congenital intersexual conditions. I personally think it would be far better if everyone agreed on ‘transwoman’ as you have spelled it, one word. But I am routinely attacked for this reasonable point of view.
Re ‘the binary’, we all are a part of it because we evolved that way. The sexual binary is what allows us to reproduce and the only reason we are here is to do so. The basic sexual binary evolved into a set of social, sexual and person behaviours that we call ‘gender’ at least as early as the Middle Palaeolithic (See Kuhn and Stiner) and this division of social roles on the basis of sex is what has made humans so successful as a species. We cannot dispense with ‘the binary’ because it is innately a part of us.
To understand modern Snowflake Culture, it is necessary to understand that the gender binary is not strictly men/women. As was identified by Prof Don Kulick, it is better described as ‘men/not-men’. In this model, ‘men’ are a strictly policed gender with specific roles they are expected to play socially, sexually and culturally. They are expected to be hunters and leaders, to be adventureres, to be sexually successful and even promiscuous, to be competitive, to be willing to fight in defence of personal ‘honour’ and that of the group, and to die, if necessary, protecting the group. These are all masculine males. The ‘not-men’ group is led by women but also contains the weaker and less masculine males (‘beta-males), the homosexuals and so on. This dichotomy is widely visible across the planet and there is plenty of literature on it.
When we look at Snowflake Culture we see that it consists ONLY of ‘not-men’. It is led by dominant women, who are often lesbians. It contains all the other women but also gay males. The proponents of ‘non-binary’ culture like to suggest that this model means that the binary is redundant but in fact it is only ONE HALF of the binary. It just has cut out all the men.
This model is not new; it has existed many times in the past and in each and every one, it has been destroyed when a masculine culture that has preserved its aggressive ‘men’ group has attacked it. We see this from the third millennium BCE in Mesopotamia, through ancient Greece, Crete, Cyprus, Europe, again and again. Each and every time, these cultures fell to aggressive, sociophagic patriarchal cultures.
That is exactly what we are seeing in Europe today. A weakened culture that has had its men emasculated is being challenged by a virulent patriarchal one, in which the warlike tendencies of men are positively rewarded. That culture is called Islam. Sweden has already fallen and within the decade, other states will have too. Civil war in Europe is inevitable and insurrection is already widespread. However, as long as Europeans retain their emasculated culture they will not be able to fight back and the chances are high, now, that Western Europe at least will not survive.
In short terms, we need the binary and by implication its patriarchy, in order to defend our culture from others that would destroy it. It’s simple human nature.
But the extreme binary that exists in Islam is to the detriment of women. Women have almost no power at all and are at the mercy of their husbands. So where do we draw the line?
In the first place, this article was written in 2015, before the current rash of absurd Snowflake ‘gender identities’ spewed across the internet. In those days there were transwomen, born male but appearing to be and living as women, and transmen, born female but appearing to be and living as men. These have nothing to do with the Snowflake ‘gender rainbow’, which is completely specious.
In fact, transwomen, particularly those we call ‘HSTS’, transsexuals, or ‘homosexual transsexuals’ support the gender binary, because gender is rooted partly in physical sex but also largely in sex drive. So if you are a male with a woman’s sexual desire for men, ie homosexual, then, if you are good-looking enough, you might reasonably decide to appear to be a pretty girl in order to attract straight male partners. Blaire White was not around back then, but she’s a fair example. People like this are not challenging the sex or gender binary in any way at all — and are hated for it by radical feminists, who have the loony-tunes notion that the gender binary can be done away with.
The above is also largely true of transmen — they are essentially lesbians on steroids who pursue straight women.
The presence, notably in the West, of another group of transwomen, called ‘transvestite autogynephiles’ does confuse the issue somewhat. However, their impulse is also driven by male libido, but this time it is fixated on themselves, as women. These are essentially fetishistic crossdressers who have lost the plot; they are not transsexual at all. However, they too support the conventional gender binary — and are also hated for it by radfems.
As regards Islam, yes, it is a horrible, misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic, slaving, paedophilic death cult that detests free thought and speech. Therefore it is the natural ally of today’s Snowflake ‘SJWs’, the modern equivalent of Hitler’s Brownshirts — and it is worth noting that Hitler was also much enamoured of the vile creed of Islam.
Naturally, I would like to see Islam removed, not just from the West but from the planet or, failing that and very much as a second-best option, turned into a form that is compatible with civilised society, which Sunni Islam as presently constituted, never can be. As to ‘where do we draw the line’, I personally would say at zero tolerance of Islam. However, I did not mention Islam in the article either.
No if your a Straight man and you date a tranny your not fucking straight your bisexual pan or gay. Do you, but stop co opting and telling straight men what they should like. Live YOUR life but straight man will never accept you as a woman and yes, having a dick or not reallly really fucking matters. We want to have sex with women meaning vagina not a fake one or a dick. We want to know a WOMAN and we will never see you as one. The moment a “straight” man accepts your an actual woman and wants date and get sexual, he is basically coming out of the closest as something OTHER than STRAIGHT. I do not agree with the violence against trans people. We need to combat that desperately. But also stop trying to convince straight men it’s ok to date trans people. It’s ok to do that but when you do you are no longer straight period
My we are the excitable little thing, aren’t we? Well, I’m a heterosexual man with male sexuality and I have no difficulty with dating and having sex with HSTS transwomen. Every other man I’ve every spoken to, who is in a relationship with an HSTS transwoman, or has had one, is the same. They pass the duck test — if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and fucks like a duck, it’s a duck. Period.
You sound like you are very young, possibly never having had sex. Or maybe you just have difficulty in that direction. Perhaps you’re lacking in confidence; you are certainly lacking it in your sexuality. So here are a few things to remember: a well lubricated anus is just as good as a vagina and it’s not off duty a quarter of the month; HSTS transwomen are delightful and, today, make better partners than the average Western natal woman, who thinks she’s a man anyway; HSTS can’t get pregnant, so if you don’t want kids, are a perfect choice; nobody — I mean nobody — gives BJ like a tranny; and a transwoman will love you heart and soul, be your shield and buckler, support you in the rough times and ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is accept her for what she is — a woman. What could be simpler?
Finally, watch your manners here. I don’t know which internet sewer you swim in regularly, but here we insist on politeness and respect. Consider that your last warning.
psychologists say that men who date trans women are not gay because the trans woman presents as feminine and the penis is a sexual trigger for straight men (this has evolutionary reasons). at the same time, however, if the man looks specifically for a pre-op trans woman with a penis, i would personally have to wonder why…..but apparently its not gayness
Linda I have done a few articles discussing the reasons why straight men find transwomen attractive. I think you are right about the penis as sexual trigger, but there is also an element of narcissism. All men are in love with their penises and seeing one on a feminine object of desire clearly stimulates their own auto-eroticism, while the absence of masculine features avoids stimulating the same-sex revulsion that all straight men have. (In my case, I much prefer very small ones which are ‘neat and dainty’; big is gross.) They are also not unpleasant to play with in the mornings — I mean, we enthusiastically play with our own, what’s the big deal with a little variety?
Having said that, straight men in relationships with pre-operative transwomen (always HSTS btw) invariably struggle with ‘vagina desire’. No matter how hot and sexy they find their partners to be, there is always that desire for the sensations only a vagina can provide. I think, sadly, this wrecks many relationships and in others, the couple have to arrange a system whereby the man is allowed to have access to vaginal sex eg by employing a prostitute. But that is really tough on the girl.
I freely admit I have not yet resolved this conundrum myself. I know I don’t want another family and I can’t deny a young woman her children; at the same time I have no interest in spending the rest of my life looking after her previous mistakes, no matter how cute they are. I have already done my duty to the species in that regard. Transwomen provide a practical, and highly desirable alternative, but, while the sex is excellent and HSTS transwomen really are adorable, often with bodies that are breathtaking, there is always that darn pussy desire.
We men are weird.
i had never once heard of the pussy desire…i didnt know it existed in straight men dating trans women. wow. if you dont want to have more kids or take care of a womans kids, why not date a woman who is older and has grown kids? you look to be about 60 ish? a woman in her 50s would probably have grown kids and in asia, i bet you could find some very attractive ones.
Hi Linda: thanks but no thanks lol. I’ll fight the pussy desire. It’s manageable. I much prefer younger women, and in any case, Asian women have a reputation for cutting off the supply of sex when they menopause. This actually appears to contribute to elevated rates of pederastic homosexuality amongst the men; you might be surprised how many ladyboys were deflowered at the age of 12 by a relative or neighbour. It’s not even slightly uncommon and is often sought by the younger partner (sense of adventure). Wealthier men may use prostitutes or ‘second wives’ — women whom they keep in an apartment or house, with a regular financial stipend, on the understanding that they be available for sex as and when. Quite often a man will have several second wives, depending on his own wealth. This pattern has been recorded for hundreds of years. Don’t let anyone fool you that prostitution in se Asia is because of Europeans; local men have been using them time out of mind.
I don’t really like to employ prostitutes and I fail to see any point at all in developing a relationship with a woman where daily sex is not an understood, ongoing part of the bargain. Without sex and intimacy, it’s just friendship, if that. I have nothing against friendship and have many women friends, but I’m not about to marry any of them. Given the situation, ladyboys are a reasonable compromise. They are very willing and usually more than competent in bed.
So then…the only reason you prefer ladyboys is due to the children issue? Sorry I dont remember if you covered this in your article. Also, you say you do not wish to employ a prostitute but given your age, if you are with a young person, isnt it understood that they will be compensated? Isnt this prostitution?
No, there are other qualities in transwomen that I find attractive. It is not a matter only of avoiding further children I wrote about this in a fact/fiction book called The Warm Pink Jelly Express Train https://gumroad.com/l/warm-pink-jelly
All relationships between men and women do involve an exchange based on sex; this need not necessarily be entirely financial, although precious few women anywhere would settle for a penniless wastrel. By your analogy, though, all marriage would be prostitution; I suspect that is not what you mean. In a good relationship, a man supports his wife financially and materially, she supports her husband sexually and emotionally.
Having said that, you should not imagine that the world runs by the bizarre and frankly diseased norms of USica. Here in Asia, an older partner is prized, especially by ladyboys, for a number of reasons. They are likely to be financially stable and most unlikely to run off with a natal woman when their biological clock kicks in. Many ladyboys and women generally, everywhere, do have massive daddy issues and naturally gravitate towards more mature men; it is only social intolerance in the West that prevents this from being more obvious there, but if you read the classic literature of the 19thy century, the heroines are typically teenage girls and the heroes men in their fifties, cf Wuthering Heights and Pride and Prejudice, not to mention Gone With the Wind or War and Peace. The modern ‘age appropriate’ notion is a recent USican invention and another the world can absolutely do without. Two inexperienced, immature people trying to make a partnership is fraught from the off; multiply the risk of catastrophic failure by a degree of magnitude in a culture where feminism has already destroyed the traditional family.
To amplify a little, it might be that you are only familiar with Western Autogynephilic transvestites (AGPs) and not True or HSTS transsexuals. The latter do exist in the West in significant numbers but because of massive social intolerance they are almost always in stealth, living as women, their backgrounds secret. HSTS in the West can easily be naturally feminine enough to ‘pass’ all their lives. Most AGPs couldn’t pass on a bus in the dark.
Asian women, especially those from southeast Asia, can be breathtakingly gorgeous and MtF HSTS are the most beautiful women in Asia. That simple. They are literally icons of feminine beauty, which is why their faces and figures grace fashion magazines and advertising all over the region. IF you add their physical beauty, their undeniable libido and insatiable desire for a man to penetrate them, to the facts that they are enthusiastic partners of older men and will forever give their sweet little hearts and souls to one, provided he treats them as women in every way and DOES NOT CHEAT, then maybe you begin to see some of the attraction.
We get to wake up next to the most stunningly gorgeous women in the world and all they ask is a little affection and 100% loyalty. Well, OK a LOT of affection; but what’s OK for cats is OK for ladyboys. There are times when I look at my wife sleeping, the morning light caressing her cheek and cry. How did God manage to create such beauty? I don’t know, but he made a believer out of me by doing it.
I can’t help but wonder if the situation here will take over the West, rather than USica corrupting everywhere else, as it usually does. My that would be a turn-up; feminist man-hating harpies replaced by beautiful loving women who want nothing more than to bear a man’s children, ghastly faux-masculine ‘gay men’ replaced by stunning HSTS transwomen. That is showing more than a few signs of actually happening. Lovely!
We do have to break down the false taboo — created by jealous women — that there is something wrong with a man having sex with a woman who has a penis. But I assure you, after the first time a man enters such a voluptuous palace as hers, there is no going back. Nearly all the men I know who date ladyboys are conventional, straight men. Little by little they change. It starts, they date a ladyboy then go back to girls. Then maybe, it’s 25% ladyboys. Pretty soon it’s 75%. And then they say fuck it and just go with the flow. Yes, to get this ramble back on point, we do miss the pussy; pussy desire is intrinsic to a straight man. But sex with a ladyboy, at the end of the day, is the best of all. One has to make a few sacrifices in life, n’est-ce pas?
I have also wondered whether trans women will sort of, take over. I doubt it, though, because Islam will take over in another 100 – 200 yrs and that is the last thing they will allow !
I am not sure I agree with your assessment of marriages being prostitution. I know several women who have stuck by their partners in times of bankruptsy, illness (even mental illness), all kinds of difficult situations. I do not think your young asian girlfriend would do that. Do you?
Also, if she is decades younger, she is not really enjoying the sex, whether she climaxes or not. I am afraid it is not feminism that makes saggy skin, wrinkles, age spots, grey hair etc, unappealing. Women in asia tolerate much older men due to lack of options and poverty. Women the world over desire a man a little older but usually, that is it. Frankly, I am surprised you believe otherwise. Asia is not another planet, afterall. While Asians may respect their elders more, they do not want to have sex with them lol. In general, the age gaps in most of thailand is not that large!
Linda. First, well there has been a considerable amount of progress in the idea of allowing transwomen to gestate babies by using a temporarily transplanted womb either from a dead donor or a transman’s hysterectomy. The child would then be delivered C-section.It now appears that the first of these will be performed within the 2-5 year time span. Of course, this leaves the issue of the production of gametes, but it is a step.
Re Islam, not really. The injunction in Islam is against two men old enough to grow beards engaging in public sex acts or affections. There is NO injunction about sex between men and boys (one reason why pederasty is rife in Islamic countries); in fact many verses in the Koran and Hadith extol it. The camel thief himself encouraged his nephew, while a boy, to ‘suck his tongue and be forever blessed’. Transwomen have been reported in Islamic culture for centuries and indeed, were prominent in the pre-Islamic Goddess cults of the Arabs. Today they are found everywhere from Morocco to Indonesia. The word ‘hijra’ which means a transwoman in India, is actually an Arabic word. The native Hindu tradition is called Thirunangai, but these co-exist in parallel. In Iran, GRS is available to all homosexual men and is subsidised by the government. In 2008, Iran performed more GRS than anywhere else except Thailand. (https://www.jstor.org/stable/23069902) Naturally, this is opposed by the deluded New Gay Man lobby in the West, who still think they are actually men. Nevertheless, it shows that Islam is not as monolithic as it is portrayed.
Your second comment reveals your overbearing sense of female privilege and entitlement. Yes, I am quite certain that my fiancee will stick by me, otherwise I should not have asked her to marry me. I have some experience of natal women, to put it mildly, and even if this relationship were to fail, I would rather spend the intervening years with a delightful ladyboy who really loves me than some superannuated old bat who resents any sexual approach, especially a Western one who really prefers her dogs/cats/rabbits. (BTW one gets used to the far higher standards of personal hygiene practised by SE Asians; that whiff of unclean backside that is all too often the accompaniment to pulling off a Western woman’s panties is something I never need to experience again. WASH, don’t smear.) Anyway, I’ll just continue looking up into my lover’s eyes as she eases me inside her sweet, fragrant lovetunnel and remember how hard done by I am that she is not what an entitled Western bitch would call a ‘real woman’. Well, she’s far more of a woman than you’ll ever be, I am prepared to bet. You don’t know my fiancee, and to be honest you appear remarkably ignorant of social norms in Asia generally. Pretty much par for the course for a Western cultural imperialist, then.
I can tell you from personal experience that southeast Asian women are strongly attracted to older men and enthusiastically have sex with them, without any financial encouragement. In all the years I have been visiting SEA I have never ONCE paid for sex and plenty of sex have I had. Why pay for what’s available free? For transwomen that goes double or more. The fact is that if you are a single older man here, you just stand still a while and you will attract a woman. I get girls may 20 offering me their phone numbers all the time; I refuse because I am in a relationship.
I appreciate your desire to disguise the appalling, toxic effect of feminism, but it won’t wash here. Even amongst the local couples we know (where both parties are cis) there are marked age gaps, usually around 15-20 years. (Smaller age gaps almost always have an element of shotgun.) In Western man/local cis woman relationships, 15 years difference is about the lower bound and much bigger ones are very common. With Western man/ladyboy relationships, at least a 20 year age gap, usually more like 30. Seeing a 70-year old man pushing the pram through the supermarket with his 20-year old wife is not at all uncommon. I live in the Philippines, as you would have known had you actually done your research, but this is exactly replicated in Thailand. Yes there are a few prominent couples who are closer in age, but they are exceptional and invariably Westernised.
Western women like you need to realise that the world is not USica; in fact that benighted polity is but 4% of global population and elsewhere, unless you are paying people to go along with your ideas, or bombing them for not doing so (apparently, either will do) nobody much GAF what USicans think any more. I think when you revealed to the world that your response to peoples who preferred home-grown dictators to USican-imposed ‘democracy’ was to kill as many of them as you can, you lost some of your credibility. And before you start, remember Syria and Libya — all that blood is on Obama and Clinton’s hands. (Both of whom are women, BTW) The locals were happy with their local dictators; now they’re either dead or their lives are ruined, thanks to the ‘global policeman’ and Britain, his spotty sidekick.
You managed to destroy your own culture but Asians are not so stupid as to let that happen here, at least, not as long as there are leaders like Duterte around (and he really is beloved). Globalising femino-communism was blown right out of the water when he became President. It ain’t going nowhere. The same is true across SEA.
Transexuals are accepted in Islamic countries?? I had no idea!
Do you mean the backside of a trans woman is cleaner because she uses a bidet instead of toilet paper? Or do you mean because she enemas?
Does the anal canal feel better than the vagina? Is there artificial lubrication involved always? Have you ever had the displeasure of withdrawing and finding fecal matter on your member?
I must say, i am genuinely shocked that men of such an advanced age are considered appealing in SE Asia! Is it possible the women are after a green card or perhaps hoping you will build them a house or help their families? As I mentioned, the average age gap among Thai couples is not that large….so I am not sure about your theories in this regard. I didnt research the Phillipines…
LOL a 70 yr old and 20 yr old would be ridiculous in any country, I am afraid. There is only one reason that that would occur….please dont delude yourself that much!
Listen…I don’t understand what has happened to your brain. You are not ugly, but you are much older, heavy set, and grey haired. I just cannot fathom a young woman enthusiastically and passionately making love to you….and this is not intended to offend. It is just reality. These women have been trained from a young age on how to pretend to love a man in order to survive.
I am certainly not speaking from a position of entitlement. I am not saying men necessarily prefer cis women at all….but you have to accept reality.
I am not sure what you mean about my response to the world re: home grown dictators…? I am an Asian woman in the West…
“Transexuals are accepted in Islamic countries?? I had no idea!”
Aye right and you pretend to be a southeast Asian woman…lol you’re a fake. Never heard of Warias? Hijras?
Do you have trouble reading English? Try night school. I never said transwomen were cleaner than ciswomen, I said USican women were dirty bitches who stink. As far as SEA is concerned, all women are cleaner than most in the West, because they actually wash themselves.
Ass is in some ways better than cunt. It’s sometimes easier to cum in a cunt, but if you get the angle and penetration right, cumming in an ass is 10x better. Never known orgasms like it. The same goes for her: you get the angle of penetration right and she’ll be bouncing off the walls, her whole body shuddering through waves of contractions while her ring grips yer cock like a cable-tie. There is no pussy in the world can contract like that. (Oh you didn’t know? Transwomen orgasm internally.)
As for shit on the cock, it can happen if the girl is inexperienced. You just wash off and get back to slamming it in there. Maybe have a word in her ear later about using a water douche prior. If these things trouble you, use a condom. (There are few things sexier, BTW, than hearing your bedicked beloved say, as you prepare her for sloppy seconds, ‘Oh, your jooz is still in my bum’ and you know this is going to be well-lubricated, slippery ass sex, especially if she’s the kind of wildo that wrecks the room.)
You’re ‘shocked’ that older men are pursued by women in SEA? Yet you claim to be a SE Asian woman? Either you are a liar or your parents left before you were born. Such couples are EVERYWHERE here.
Although your attitude is typical of a USican feminist bitch, let’s address a point — supposing SE Asian women are brought up to love and care for older men. So what? Why is that a bad thing? Sounds eminently reasonable to me and I tell you, there’s no shortage of babes offering it. Frankly, getting them to wait till they’re legal is the trick. We don’t want fucked-up USican ideas here.
Even if it’s pretence, who the fuck would care anyway? As long as she’s loyal, manages the home adequately, bears the rugrats (if desired) and fucks like a bunny at least once and preferably twice a day, who gives a shit? The man provides materially for the woman, she milks his dick every day. Fair’s fair. And I do assure you, my pet, passionate daily lovemaking is standard in this and, for that matter, in previous relationships with LBs. They don’t give a fuck about age; as long as my cock does the trick, and it does, they happy. (BTW, you want to know why women here (Phils) don’t take the pill? It’s because they reduce female libido and these girls like to fuck — and more to the point, they know that’s what their men want too. What’s a few extra kids? The only girls using the pill here are ladyboys lol!)
‘Asian woman in the West’? Aye right. So how come you are so pigshit ignorant about SE Asia and an entitled, arrogant bitch to boot? You’re a Western feminist; they’re all rats.
BTW, no man in his right mind takes an Asian woman, cis or trans, to live in the West, because entitled harpies like you will do everything they can to spoil the relationship and turn her into another entitled, arrogant, over-privileged, spoiled Western bitch. What fucks in Asia stays in Asia.
I never said i was south east asian. I just said “asian”. please read carefully. and yes, i was born and raised in the west
hijras and whatnot are accepted as part of a group and allowed to dance, beg, etc but it is not common for them to be hired in regular jobs. i think things are changing a little. in thailand, an owner if an airline recently hired some ladyboys as stewardesses and this was considered a big deal.
as for personal hygiene, you could be right. i have not compared. one wonders just what sorts of western women you have dated though lol
i am aware that trans women and men can orgasm via prostate stimulation but cant trans woman also orgasm by manipulation of the penis? i thought they could…but the ejaculate is either absent or clear?
bedicked beloved hahahahahahahaha you are a very unique individual, i’ll give you that hahhaaha
i am aware that old men are pursued in SE Asia…i never disputed that fact….its the reason I am talking about. They are brought up to DUPE older men. You will never be the man who has her heart. It simply isnt possible the vast majority of the time. Perhaps most men do not care as long as they get what they need, I dont know.
Out of curiosity, do you french kiss? I often think that I could tolerate doggy style with an much older man but kissing would be a big problem for me.
I wasnt aware women who were sexually active there didnt practice birth control! Thats crazy. Could it be that that is more the case if they are with foreigners?
I am not sure why feminist became a bad word. All it means is gender equality.
I disagree about the reason for not bringing an Asian to the West. The reason is, that once in the West, there is much less reason to have to tolerate living with an old man. That is hard work for a young woman. It has zero to do with feminism. The woman has options and will naturally be drawn to men in her age range. It is really very simple. If she can find a comparable standard of living without you, she will. But I am sure you will continue to delude yourself. Reality: saggy balls, white hair, wrinkles, age spots, hanging gut is no more appealing to a woman than to a man lol. One must accept ones mortality.
Well, I’ll grant you, you are an offensive, entitled little bitch, aren’t you? But at least we’ve established: you’re about as ‘Asian’ as I am Dutch and you are no more qualified to discuss Asia or social norms in Asia than any other Usican. What, Granddaddy came over for the Gold Rush did he? You are a vile cesspit of Usican feminist ideology that has no place at all in southeast Asia.
Your ignorance of trans lives here is spectacular, your limited knowledge trawled from ancient YouTube videos. In fact, transwomen here today have the full range of employment that cis women enjoy. Many work in call centres, but others in public services, in shops, or are independent entrepreneurs. Some are indeed, air hostesses, but far more have other jobs. You are actually racist, as well as sexist, my dear (if you are even a woman and not a male troll.) If you are as Westernised as you claim, your backside is probably just as manky as a native (ie white) USican’s.
Given that you’re not actually Asian, you just have Asian looks, and you have admitted that whatever kind of ‘Asian’ you pretend to be, it’s not a southeast Asian, how would you know what women here like? They like older men. They especially like older white men. I know that jars with your feminist delusions but I don’t care. Your ideas are not welcome here and they have no political traction.
Feminism stopped being about ‘equality’ decades ago. Now it’s about eradicating masculinity, getting rid of men and making women superior. Men will, sooner or later, have to take firm action to redress the balance; given our vastly superior strength, military organisation, financial wealth and political abilities, that should be interesting. Men should begin by refusing ever to vote for a woman in any capacity, refusing to work for women, refusing to employ women, refusing to spend money in businesses run by women, refusing women access to their spaces and by campaigning to defund all non-STEM education that is run by women and to ensure that 50% of teachers at all levels are men. If that doesn’t work, we’ll review the situation.
I realise that you don’t like older men; maybe you’re a lesbian. Or maybe you’re just really ugly. That happens. But don’t imagine you are speaking for others when you rehearse your hatred and racism.
As for me, I shall happily go on fucking my fiancee, 36 years younger than me, welcoming her love, her deep-tongue kisses, her passionate coitus and all the other affection she gives me, and thanking God that I have her; and that she is not even slightly like you. You’re trash. You are bitter, twisted and you cannot stand the fact that there are women who really like masculine, strong men like me. But nobody cares what you like.
Live with it, but don’t bring it here.
A little research — more than you can manage, I know — shows that there is no age restriction on marriage in Vietnam, but where there is an age gap of more than 20 years, the parties must visit a ‘Marriage Consultancy Centre’ to ensure both understand the law; this procedure cannot impede the marriage, it’s a formality. This applies in all marriages, not just those involving foreigners.
In Cambodia, since 2011, foreigners cannot marry Cambodian women in Cambodia, in a traditional Khmer marriage, where the foreigner is over 50. However, Cambodia recognises any marriage between a Cambodian citizen and any foreigner that is formalised outside Cambodia, and ‘There is no law against couples of any age or nationality getting married outside Cambodia.’
So you just take her to your country’s local Embassy and marry her there. In any case, if all you want to do is fuck her or live with her, have at it with enthusiasm.
Nothing like spreading half-truth, eh ‘Linda’?
By the way, you’re blocked from any future comment. You’re an idiot and a feminist and neither are permitted here. Sue me.
“There is an imagined ‘bargain’, in which ‘being attractive as a woman’ implies that one’s genitalia, not normally exposed to view, must be of a certain order. But that reduces all women, not just transwomen, to sex objects that are defined entirely by the nature and history of their genitalia.”
But that is the biological definition of women and men. The differentiation between eggcell- and spermcreating humans. It is not about falling in love, it is just the first attraction, when you don’t know the other person. If you see physiological aspects of a women, you are attracted, because in this moment, you believe, that it is a real women. This imagination is part of the attraction, which is gone, once you know the truth.
It is like you going to buy a burger, it smells so good and maybe it tastes good, and then they reveal to you, that burger is made of dog-meat or human-meat. The next moment you might want to puke.
Would you say: “No problem, if it tastes good”? Of course not, you probably don’t want to eat dog or human meat, even if it tastes good.
I made it quite clear in the article that we were not talking about situations where a partner was being sought for reproductions, so why use that as the basis for your strawman? Did you read the article? Nope. You’re just insecure about your attraction to transwomen. And your analogy is despicable. There is nothing about an HSTS transwoman that would make anyone want to puke. They’re lovely. Off you toddle and jerk, now you got your ass on a plate
Your view is incorrect. A large majority of heterosexual men is not attracted to transgenders. You seem to mistake the ‘lustfull eyes’ for ‘eyes of non-sexual curiosity’. In some cases they might not see that they came across a transgender and thus feel attraction but as soon as they find out, they will lose their interest. This is the reason that most heterosexual men do not want to date transgenders: lack of attraction .
I was going to bin this as trolling, which it is, but it’s too good an opportunity to miss.
You say you’re not attracted to these girls?
Seriously? Then you are either a liar or a gay.
The reason a lot of heterosexual men deny being attracted to a HSTS is peer pressure… I’ve lived in the Philippines now for a few years and can tell you many of the foreigners seek out ladyboys specifically for sex. They figure, who will know? Why do you think these ladyboy sex workers can demand $100 a meeting and get it? And yes most are middle age and married.
Lol 100 a pop? You’re paying too much. But you’re right on the peer pressure
I will admit one thing to all then so called transgender females. You look good from your head down until you belly button. And that is only because some can pull off looking like what most identify as being features associated with 99%of BIOLOGICAL females. And 99%of males are heterosexual….not bi or homosexual. So, if a biological man whom is by all means straight is fooled to nearly the point of non return(full blown sex) thinking he’s getting a ???? female…he might be a little more than upset. And why shouldn’t he? He was played a fool and strung along by a person that knows they are notn biologically female but tries to be to get what they want. You have to put the shoe on the other foot. And for that you’d have to have an imagination. But then again you are still biologically male so imagination doesn’t run as high.
Nor does intelligence, in your case
I believe you once wrote that the purpose of human being’s is to reproduce. This is the essence of heterosexuality. A heterosexual man can not reproduce with a trans woman. A trans woman who does not tell the heterosexual man that she is targeting for sex that she is trans is simply objectifying the man for sex.
Blanchard categorizes the feminine transwomen that you write so enthusiastically about as homosexuals who have a overwhelming desire to attract straight men for sex such that they are willing to surgically transform their bodies and even cut off their penis if it means they will get to have sex with straight men. This emphasis on sex is objectification of the male.
Heterosexual relationships, as you have noted, are based on women producing his children and men providing and protecting the women and their children in exchange.
So when a trans woman does not tell a straight man that she is a trans woman and not a biological woman then she is being highly deceptive and self serving.
Heterosexuals expect potential heterosexual mates to be at their best and most attractive – pretty, attractively dressed, fun, flirtatious, witty, charming….
Violence is wrong and so is deception and objectification. Transwomen most definitely have a moral and ethical responsibility to tell a heterosexual man that they are transwomen. That is also kind and thoughtful.
It specifically states in the article, that I was referring to situations where reproduction was NOT the purpose. I realise your massive sexual insecurity probably reduces your attention span, but do at least try to read before opening your trap.
I believe that potential sex partners have an obligation to warn you of anything potentially shocking in your pants or your past, whether it’s a micro-penis, a penis, a vagina, some oddity or a Venereal disease. The typical Western man does not expect a hot chick to have a Penis. A woman doesn’t expect a man who apparently stuffed a sock in his pants to have a micro-penis. A woman doesn’t expect a man to have a vagina. Not warning someone and then springing it upon them when they are having or after they had sex is pretty heartless. Most people have zero idea what a transgendered person is let alone a micro-penis or some other rare variation.
People expect that ‘what you see to be what you get.’ It’s a massive mind fuck to trick someone like that which isn’t cool. It isn’t fair to call them names because they had a normal reaction of rejection or even disgust.
If mutual respect is wanted then mutual respect must be given along with accepting the fact that it’s normal for someone to not want to be with a transgendered person. Afterall men – and women to a lesser extent – are so visual that seeing a penis or something out of the ordinary is a complete turnoff and shock since its 180* opposite of what they WANT to look at and experience. A whole lot of people aren’t kinky and are just looking for something ordinary.
You can call it transphobic but it’s actually just a normal reaction. I would expect people to have a different reaction if a person is respectful up front – they still might not go on a date but they are more likely to generate tolerance.
You’re different and there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s also nothing wrong with someone rejecting sexual relationships with transgenders. What is wrong is needlessly hurting each other.
It is transphobia, Donna. It’s so pervasive in the West people don’t even see it. The whole New Gay Man thing exists because of transphobia. If this were not so, all ‘gay men’ would actually be women — which is what they are anyway. Why would they indulge the ridiculous pretence of being masculine if society were happy for them to be girls — as it is here? That was exactly how it was until about 1970 in the US, later in UK. The absurdity of males who pursue masculine men pretending to be masculine themselves is a very recent phenomenon, that didn’t exist at all, anywhere, until the late 19th century (seach ‘Friedlaender’, I’ve done articles on this.) It got nowhere until the late 60s. Prior, homosexual males were as feminine as they could possibly be. I might be a little older than you but I can remember city centre areas in Scotland, not known for being a hotbed of sexual liberation, where crossdressing gay boys congregated of an evening to hunt straight, I repeat straight men, during the 70s and 80s. None of them wanted another gay. And as Quentin Crisp, herself a grand queen said ‘Men are neither homosexual nor heterosexual, they’re just sexual.’ (Crisp did not consider herself to be a man; for her, a homosexual was something else.)
Men are not so fussy; they would fuck a good looking tree if it came to it. That is why, in cultures where young women are off-limits, boys are the targets — voir Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Islamosphere generally but others too. And what about Situational Homosexuality? Not exactly rare. So it would take a hell of a lot to stop a man from fucking a beautiful trans woman and that something is transphobia, which is so redolent of the West you can almost smell it.
As for disclosure, I said in the piece I advise women to make their status clear before the clothes come off; but that’s not an ethical position, it’s because so many trans women end up beaten or killed. Transphobia is a choice, it’s like racism and antisemitism. You cannot possibly say ‘I don’t have sex with trans women’ and then ‘but I’m not transphobic’. It’s like saying ‘I’m not antisemitic, but Israel shouldn’t exist.’ It’s an oxymoron.
People can be transphobes, I can’t stop them. But think about the men here. A real man, confronted by such a surprise, would simply throw her legs over his shoulders and have at it; or if he really were scared of mice, turn her over and go from the back. (Nice.) If he were a bit lily-livered, he might politely excuse himself. But what he would NOT do is beat the crap out of the girl and drown her in the toilet or beat her and then set her on fire or any of the other atrocities that are regularly inflicted on trans women just for wanting what every other woman wants– a normal relation with a man, in which he fucks her.
As far as men are concerned, we are talking here about the weakest, most insecure, most useless examples that exist. As far as women go, it’s even worse, but I might have to do another piece on that.
Well I think you are conflating the two. Just because someone is turned off by a transgendered person doesn’t mean they are going to harm them….. But it certainly isn’t wise to play games with people and their feelings.
I know men are horny but what some can just brush aside others can’t. Everyone is different and it isn’t just cultural.
Yeah I get the cultural thing but basically, Anglophones, and particularly Anglophonic men, are the biggest bunch of hypocrites on the planet. I see them all the time, Donna, and you should ask Sam about it. They’re positively drooling over trans women but hey, no homo buddy. I accept that most transphobes will stop short of physical harm but you tell me: if a man has the horny hots for a woman but refuses to have sex (or even buy her a drink) if he finds out she’s trans, then what is that? What can it be other than transphobia? I don’t know if you’ve been watching my YT channel (it’s linked form the top bar) but in my Community pages there I’ve been running a series ‘women are persons of feminine gender’. All the featured girls are trans and you just try to tell me these are not amongst the most gorgeous women anywhere. ANY man would want them, so refusal = transphobia.
Of course men will drool over gorgeous women including gorgeous transwomen but heterosexuals / heteronormatives so expect and want the carpet to match the drapes.
There must be some kind of scale whereby some people can ignore the mismatched genitalia. It’s more than just being the penetrator vs the penetrated. If that were the case then gay men would be chasing transmen and masculine lesbians but they aren’t – just the opposite. You can’t escape the fact that for many people they are innately repulsed. Isn’t that why many trans persons end up undergoing genital surgery – because they can’t find a heterosexual partner without doing so?
GAMPs are GAMPs for a reason, no?
That said I hope that the more homosexual transsexualism is discussed the greater understanding and acceptance they will find. Labeling people phobic when they aren’t isn’t helpful. It isn’t any more legitimate than labeling people you disagree with racist. A preference also has very obvious biological roots which are beneficial.
Well I no longer use the term ‘GAMP’ because it is based in ‘gynandromorph’ which means ‘men in the shape of women’. That applies well to AGPs but no HSTS is any kind of man. I use MSTW, men who have sex with trans women, or transphilia, attraction to trans people. (MSTW only applies after the event, not before.) I am MSTW.
I’m going to do an article and a vid on this because it remains a problem. Some people still seem to think that transphilia is some sort of homosexuality or bisexualism, but it is not. All boys, when they are little, believe that girls have penises. This was well described by Freud and led him to his theory of Castration Anxiety. But Freud was not the only one to notice this and it has been well documented. Boys, if they see a naked girl, will assume she is hiding the penis; that she has ‘tucked it in’. This misapprehension can last well into adolescence, in some cases, though in most it is dispelled during puberty. But while the child is developing and has this idea, he is also establishing his ideal sexual partner in his mind, his Erotic Target.
This occurs mainly during what Freud described as the latent phase and the feelings are characterised by romantic crushes rather than sexual desires. Many boys, if asked to draw a naked woman at this stage, will depict her with a dick. Girls at this stage are characterised (to boys) by other things, long hair, wearing skirts, so on, a load of culturally dependent stuff. But the boy has a cock so he assumes everyone else does and so that the difference between girls and boys is all outward. Many boys think that babies come out of the anus and when they begin to think about sex, that that’s how it’s done — anally. They may also think that sex is done that way, though often they think that it is by rubbing penises together or other means. (Which can be quite good fun lol.) This probably accounts for the popularity of anal sex amongst men too.
Now when this is challenged by reality (Fiona, 14 and Inanna arisen if there ever was one), the boy has to remodel his Erotic Target. At this stage he may become fascinated by female genitalia ((which may in fact become a pathway into AGP, but that’s another issue.) There is a fascinating scene in John Boorman’s ‘Hope and Glory’ where a slightly older girl lines the younger boys up and shows them the contents of her drawers. I have no doubt that, and the boys’ reactions, were drawn straight from memory.
The boy, having seen his first vagina, will forget or suppress his earlier ET, throw her in the cupboard of childish nonsense. But what happens if — when, these days — he then is exposed to imagery or the reality of a woman who actually does have a penis?
Eureka, that’s what. Suddenly, there she is, that bedicked darling of his childhood fantasy, his first love. She has leapt out of the closet yelling ‘I’m baaaack!’ Did you miss me?
This will provoke one of two reactions: in the first he will embrace this new reality, just as he embraces women who don’t have dicks and accept it as an alternative Erotic Target. So his ET now is a bit like a double-exposure that at the same time has a dick and does not. This man does not see the penis as being definitive of not being a woman. He sees a trans woman’s penis as a woman’s penis. It does not indicate that she is a man; after all, all girls used to have dicks, didn’t they? This one just escaped the knifers.
Several studies have been done now on how MSTWs practise a form of suspension of disbelief. They incorporate their lovers’ penises into sex in ways that don’t challenge their model. She’s a girl and they penetrate her as they would any girl. Her dick is a girl dick, that’s all. This man is probably strongly repulsed by masculinity, hirsuteness, muscled bodies and so on. Many (I am one) find female bodybuilders and trans men sexually repulsive even though they are actually female; it is not sex that attracts, but gender. In those cases, the vagina becomes a man’s sexual organ.
On the other hand, our man may instantly reject the information and try to sweep this vision under the carpet, destroy it, burn it, kill it. This man is extremely dangerous for trans women and unfortunately in the West he is very common. (Much less so in Asia, where most men will have at some stage banged at least one bakla; they appreciate the soft yielding skin, the moment of submission, the unique pleasure and of course the incredible sensation of someone climaxing anally on his organ. That is one you never forget.)
Our second man’s reaction is visceral and potently violent. That is why, in my opinion, attacks by men like this, like the Lauda and Araujo ones, are characterised by such extreme levels of violence, continuing long after the victim was dead. Her very existence provoked a narcissistic rage response because it challenged his entire world. The whole conception he had of himself, of society, of sex and gender, everything even his very manhood, has just been totally shattered and worse he knows he is turned on. The most transphobic men are always strongly attracted to trans women, believe me. That desire fucks them up, rots their souls out from the inside.
Going back to the man who accepts the return of Little Miss Dickypants into his life, he’s no more ‘gay’ than he ever was. He grew up thinking girls had penises and lo and behold so they do, well some of them anyway. But those that still do, gosh, they’re so beautiful even with their clothes on. They’re more lovely than ‘real’ girls. Why? Because, and with all due respect, to this man they are complete women. Cis women — and for that matter post op trans women — are, in this model, missing something. A very important something.
You’ll find that men like this generally prefer HSTS to AGPs because of their greater femininity, and anecdotally at least, they prefer small pretty cocks, not big ones (True of me but also of many others.) That is because their first ET, that first dream lover, had a dick that was similar to their own at that time — a boy’s cock, not a man’s. (I spent a decade researching on discussion boards and forums where this topic is central; I know how these men think.) They have never once entertained the idea that the girl night penetrate them; they’re shocked and repulsed by that idea. It’s just that this girl’s vagina is a bit further back and there’s a flobbly bit of meat in front of it; a flobbly bit that feels rather pleasant in the hand, as you fall asleep with her.
As to those women who have GRS in order to find a partner, I have always said, ‘don’t do it’. It’s a waste of time, unless the girl can keep her history a total secret forever. Only a very few, and honourable, men, will cope and I salute them.
Our second man above, on finding that she did once have a cock, will probably be just as appalled as if she still did and possibly as violent. Certainly he will end the relationship amongst accusations of dishonesty. Remember April Ashley and Caroline Cossey.
At the same time all the accepting MSTWs and transphilic men will shake their heads in amazement; ‘Why would you do something like that? Now you’re nothing special, no different from any other girl. You’re not my bedicked baby any more.’ Loss of interest is highly likely. (I always support girls who do this, despite any misgivings I might have, BTW. I might advise caution before, but I always completely support after. Danny Foxxx, whom I knew at the time, had it done and I supported her against the baying hordes — and they were really, really offensive. But in the end, I questioned her wisdom and still do. Lovely woman, by the way, just adorable, sweet and so beautiful. And having a dick did not detract one iota from her femininity.)
We are not talking here about AGP GAMP men (they really are GAMP). While their pathway might have similar elements, they simply do not see their partners as women, but as penises on legs that don’t offend their homophobia.These guys definitely want to be railed and railed blue at that. Make me your bitch while I munch pillows. Talking to TS sex workers, believe me it’s an eye-opener. Poor innocents like me are shocked and lest you doubt me, look up a YouTuber called ‘The Pretender’. I have literally felt like puking at some of the things these guys say — and think is normal.
I’m not giving an inch on the transphobia, sorry. If a man won’t date a trans woman, whom he finds attractive, because she’s trans, then he’s transphobic and that is that. He needs to broaden his thinking a lot. Fucking is not about biology, it’s about fucking, for a man, though I accept this is something that is seen differently by women. Fucking is consequence-free, for men, or rather, any consequences are social; for a woman it could be life-changing and previously, possibly fatal. It is certainly not consequence-free — as Erika Jong showed, there is a zipless fuck for men but there is not for women. While I am critical of radical feminists, I absolutely recognise the right of a woman to control access to her own body; it is the foundation of human culture. I just get shirty when she tries to control access to other people’s.
Well that would still make me less repugnant than a feminist
No I like women. Great homemakers
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This is true. Basically you are a typical Western feminist who simply can’t stand the fact that some men have had enough of you, because when we give you the two fingers, your power evaporates. And that is all women care about, power. When we refuse to kowtow, you have nothing left.
I need to do more posts like this one, they really get trash like you going, don’t they? Now you toddle off back to the trailer and take your hissy fits with you.
(Edited by Webmaster)
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